(January 18, 2016 at 9:35 am)Iroscato Wrote: Even if the concept of religion wasn't a laughably see-through pile of cack, no being that demands my worship is worthy of having it.

Ditto x10^∞

(January 18, 2016 at 11:09 am)Faith No More Wrote: I've always wondered why a god would want people acting like a bunch of mindless drones.  Is it too much to ask for a god that values individuality and free thought?

(January 18, 2016 at 11:12 am)robvalue Wrote: Exactly! He gives us a brain, and the "free will" we're so often told about, and then wants us to shut it off and just believe whatever we're told without question. What kind of weird being are we dealing with? Sounds messed up.

That's what confuses me about incarnations of gods like the Christian one - it creates us especially, wants us to worship it, gives us brains and the capability to learn and act of our own accord... but wants us to believe in it based on faith and really shitty evidence that can be explained by natural means, and then, in some sub-incarnations, will send the people who fail to live up to its no-thinky-just-kiss-my-assy expectation to some sort of torturous underworld? WTF? Who would worship that?

(January 18, 2016 at 12:50 pm)ktrap Wrote: I do not consider Atheism as a good option.  At best, Atheism has good arguments against dogma in religion, but beyond that there is NOTHING.  

How is this different than saying "I do not consider Theism as a good option.  At best, Theism has good arguments FOR dogma in religion, but beyond that there is NOTHING."?

I mean, you can't prove that a god absolutely exists any more than an atheist can prove that a god doesn't absolutely exist.

(January 18, 2016 at 3:58 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 9:35 am)Iroscato Wrote: Even if the concept of religion wasn't a laughably see-through pile of cack, no being that demands my worship is worthy of having it.

Ditto x10^∞

(January 18, 2016 at 11:09 am)Faith No More Wrote: I've always wondered why a god would want people acting like a bunch of mindless drones.  Is it too much to ask for a god that values individuality and free thought?

(January 18, 2016 at 11:12 am)robvalue Wrote: Exactly! He gives us a brain, and the "free will" we're so often told about, and then wants us to shut it off and just believe whatever we're told without question. What kind of weird being are we dealing with? Sounds messed up.

That's what confuses me about incarnations of gods like the Christian one - it creates us especially, wants us to worship it, gives us brains and the capability to learn and act of our own accord... but wants us to believe in it based on faith and really shitty evidence that can be explained by natural means, and then, in some sub-incarnations, will send the people who fail to live up to its no-thinky-just-kiss-my-assy expectation to some sort of torturous underworld?  WTF?  Who would worship that?

(January 18, 2016 at 12:50 pm)ktrap Wrote: I do not consider Atheism as a good option.  At best, Atheism has good arguments against dogma in religion, but beyond that there is NOTHING.  

How is this different than saying "I do not consider Theism as a good option.  At best, Theism has good arguments FOR dogma in religion, but beyond that there is NOTHING."?

I mean, you can't prove that a god absolutely exists any more than an atheist can prove that a god doesn't absolutely exist.

Hey!

I don't demand your worship.

I ask for it nicely...


...with the expectation that I'll hurt you if you don't.

(January 18, 2016 at 3:13 pm)ktrap Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 1:39 pm)robvalue Wrote: Ktrap: Atheism is not a choice. It's a state of mind. It's not about being an option. The option is whether to join religion or not. An atheist can join a religion and pretend, many have little choice.

 I thought I clearly stated my view.  I am a theist not part of any religion.
 
 Why I do need to part of a religion?

 Is this a requirement for theists?

  And regarding my point on Atheism as an option.  Leaving all religions aside, an individual who contemplates on the existence of God either believes in the existence of God or does not (or perhaps refuse to believe) the existence of God.  This is what I was referring to as the option or what you are calling state of mind.  My state of mind (as per your line of thought) is Theism.

Or that person says "I don't know" and goes about their day.

I believe in proof! Not wishful thinking.
If you need an emotional crutch, go to a shrink.

(January 18, 2016 at 4:36 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 3:13 pm)ktrap Wrote:  I thought I clearly stated my view.  I am a theist not part of any religion.
 
 Why I do need to part of a religion?

 Is this a requirement for theists?

  And regarding my point on Atheism as an option.  Leaving all religions aside, an individual who contemplates on the existence of God either believes in the existence of God or does not (or perhaps refuse to believe) the existence of God.  This is what I was referring to as the option or what you are calling state of mind.  My state of mind (as per your line of thought) is Theism.

Or that person says "I don't know" and goes about their day.

Add to that "I don't care."

Is what true? Why should I worship a god who is allergic to iron, doesn’t give a fuck about women, condones genocide, slavery and rape, can’t write a coherent text, takes pleasure in suffering, gets off on blood, etc.

They’d have better luck convincing me that the bible isn’t true.

(January 18, 2016 at 5:07 pm)KevinM1 Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 4:36 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Or that person says "I don't know" and goes about their day.

Add to that "I don't care."

Good catch, thanks.

Regarding worship, in my prior practice, worship was a path to understanding the godhead and her reflection in reality better. Because she is reflected both in reality and in my inner essence, greater understanding is a profitable goal in that it allows me to make better use of my life.

I could see myself returning to religion, true or indeterminate. I'm not one for the list.

May God inspire you with love of his beauty and majesty, being in awe of him at first till it turns to familiarity. May God remind you of his signs in yourself and the connecting holy names of his that have filled the foundation of all things. May God awaken you to the unseen path, the many good acts in their interior spirit, the way of connecting and ascending to him, and empower you through his name, his light, his honour, his sword, and help you subdue the uncleanness in your souls which is the source of doubt in God. May God inspire you with love of his chosen friends, desire to be with the best people of humanity who see the light as it's meant to be see and guide by the truth of their sure vision of God's signs and guidance to others. May he awaken you to take side of the truthful towards themselves and God and not hate them or their path.  May he inspire you to not follow your desires but rather open your hearts to submission to the truth of God's holy names and the guidance of the ships that sail by his name. Amen.

I don't know what kind of sense of pride or honour you get of this, or how you are deceived in some way your boldness is that of real courage.

I have no want to join any religion, too. Not worth my time!