Anyway, why was god afraid of telling the hebrews slavery was wrong, period? Ah politics.

If the bible is all we have of god's communication, and you discard most of it, what does that tell you?

If you only take seriously the parts you happen to agree with, then all you're doing is having your own morality reflected back at you. And the fact you have to ignore most of the book to achieve this shows how utterly irrelevant it is.

I've been over why free will is a flawed argument about a million times so I'll leave that one for now

I have a simple question for the theists here arguing for "objective morality", is slavery objectively moral or immoral?

(January 24, 2016 at 10:45 am)robvalue Wrote: No, I'm not. I'm saying that I care about human wellbeing, and I'm asking if God does too. If he does, then slavery is bad. If he doesn't, then I don't care about what he thinks "morality" is.

Ok, I see what you're saying now. My apologies.  

If it is true that He doesn't care though, that doesn't make him a monster or evil or immoral or anything like that, according to your logic. Though I know it wasn't you who said He was any of those things.

(January 24, 2016 at 10:46 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(January 24, 2016 at 10:40 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So just because YOU think slavery is wrong, doesn't mean it inherently is, according to you. So why would someone else be a monster for disagreeing with you on it?

Yes I think people who think slavery is moral are disgusting monsters, It doesn't have to be right, wrong, or objective.

I guess not, but it just seems silly. If morality is just as subjective and unreal as "the best color in the world", for example, then someone having a different favorite color than yourself shouldn't make them a disgusting monster.

(January 24, 2016 at 10:51 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(January 24, 2016 at 10:42 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's just part of letting people have free will. I'm sure God could have forced people to think and act a certain way, but He chose not to. That's the whole point of free will.

Well its not free will, because god not only commands slavery but tells them exactly who and how to enslave. Also how can you argue for objective morality and free will? How can the answer to a moral dilemma be predetermined but afford me the free will to form my opinion?

A person can have the free will to believe whatever they want about things like rape, murder, slavery, etc. But it doesn't mean they will not be horribly incorrect if they believe those things are good.

If we all agree, you me and other civilised people, that we care about human wellbeing, then we should be able to agree from this assumption that slavery is "bad". The fact that we might not have agreed on this is then irrelevant. We do agree.

In another society where they don't care about human wellbeing, or not the wellbeing of certain people, then their idea of what is "good" and "bad" is going to be different. Ours isn't objectively better, but ours is suited to our goals. Theirs would not be suited to our goals. But that's again irrelevant, because they would have different goals.

What is a "good goal" and what isn't is entirely arbitrary, but on the whole, we agree wellbeing is important. This lays a huge foundation down, and removes a lot of the arbitrary nature. Even though we never each totally agree on how to achieve it, we're pulling in the same direction. Of course, some individuals may not be. They will have their own morality, which seems alien to us. Their goals won't be our goals.

Quote:IS GOD A MORAL MONSTER

Yes the Christian god is a petty, childish, genocidal, infantcidal monster.

That was easy, Next question

(January 24, 2016 at 10:59 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 24, 2016 at 10:46 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: Yes I think people who think slavery is moral are disgusting monsters, It doesn't have to be right, wrong, or objective.

I guess not, but it just seems silly. If morality is just as subjective and unreal as "the best color in the world", for example, then someone having a different favorite color than yourself shouldn't make them a disgusting monster.

No not silly at all, sure I can think someone is a monster for having a different opinion then me, especially when their opinion is to enslave and hurt other people. Of course it varies depending on the issue being discussed, I wouldn't think somebody is a monster if their opinion differed from mine on the taste of broccoli.

(January 24, 2016 at 10:53 am)LastPoet Wrote: While morality remains subjective, to us humans, we have arrived at the point that to us is morally wrong to own another human as property. Huge step huh? Tell me CL, what says in that obsolete politics book about the wife and kids of the slave that is released? You can't just cherry pick the stuff written in there that confirm your beliefs. Take it as a whole.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I was just playing devil's advocate, and that I don't put much stock in the OT. I at least understand what the OP is trying to say, and am trying to relay the message here. Doesn't mean I agree that God actually told people to do those things.