(January 26, 2016 at 3:02 am)robvalue Wrote: If someone knew something that seemed incredible, or an event happened which I couldn't explain, I'd say "Wow, that's really interesting. Let's see if we can find out an explanation for this." Until such time as an explanation supported by evidence was found, I would file it under "unexplained".

No amount of "unexplained" reports combine to make a "magic" report or a "God" report. It is just an indication that we don't know everything. No one is claiming that we do.

Just like a hundred flawed arguments don't make a solid argument. A million anecdotes don't make one bit of hard data. A trillion coincidences don't establish your personal favourite magical explanation.

Try saying, "I don't know". It's a liberating phrase. Religion is cashing in repeatedly on people's discomfort with those three words.

To YOU be YOUR way of belief and to me be mine

Indeed.

If you don't want flaws in your arguments pointed out, then I'd advise not presenting them.

(January 26, 2016 at 4:45 am)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 26, 2016 at 3:02 am)robvalue Wrote: If someone knew something that seemed incredible, or an event happened which I couldn't explain, I'd say "Wow, that's really interesting. Let's see if we can find out an explanation for this." Until such time as an explanation supported by evidence was found, I would file it under "unexplained".

No amount of "unexplained" reports combine to make a "magic" report or a "God" report. It is just an indication that we don't know everything. No one is claiming that we do.

Just like a hundred flawed arguments don't make a solid argument. A million anecdotes don't make one bit of hard data. A trillion coincidences don't establish your personal favourite magical explanation.

Try saying, "I don't know". It's a liberating phrase. Religion is cashing in repeatedly on people's discomfort with those three words.

To YOU be YOUR way of belief and to me be mine

Oh how the stench of your own irony is lost on you.

"TO YOU"

Yea and that is what we are trying to get you to see. 

"TO YOU' is not an argument.

To others Jesus and the bible are right and YOU are wrong.

To others Yahweh is right and Muslims and Christians are wrong.

To others Hindus and the Vedas are right and everyone else is wrong.

To you, yea, sure, if you want to believe Allah is the one true god, and the Koran is his word, sure, if you want to believe that badly enough, you will. We are trying to tell you everyone falls for their emotions and everyone has books they like. You claiming to be special and different is not different than anyone of other religions.

I would suggest you merely like what you believe, and I would also suggest that humans make up ALL ALL ALL these religions because humans prefer a comforting lie over a a harsh reality. The good news for humanity, is they do not have to fear a finite existence. The bad news is humans are so stuck in an antiquated chase for a non existent utopia they cant see that they don't need any religion to do good or be good.

Do yourself a favor and stop being paranoid about our challenges to you. Nothing bad will happen to you in reality if you figure out what we have. And if you do accept that reality, you will feel a big sense of relief that you don't have to defend a book of myth.

We really are not singling you out because you are Muslim, and this is NOT a race or religion issue, this is a matter of how good logic works in reality, and how religion screws up our species ability to reason.

(January 26, 2016 at 11:14 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 26, 2016 at 4:45 am)Sheed1980 Wrote: To YOU be YOUR way of belief and to me be mine

Oh how the stench of your own irony is lost on you.

"TO YOU"

Yea and that is what we are trying to get you to see. 

"TO YOU' is not an argument.

To others Jesus and the bible are right and YOU are wrong.

To others Yahweh is right and Muslims and Christians are wrong.

To others Hindus and the Vedas are right and everyone else is wrong.

To you, yea, sure, if you want to believe Allah is the one true god, and the Koran is his word, sure, if you want to believe that badly enough, you will. We are trying to tell you everyone falls for their emotions and everyone has books they like. You claiming to be special and different is not different than anyone of other religions.

I would suggest you merely like what you believe, and I would also suggest that humans make up ALL ALL ALL these religions because humans prefer a comforting lie over a a harsh reality. The good news for humanity, is they do not have to fear a finite existence. The bad news is humans are so stuck in an antiquated chase for a non existent utopia they cant see that they don't need any religion to do good or be good.

Do yourself a favor and stop being paranoid about our challenges to you. Nothing bad will happen to you in reality if you figure out what we have. And if you do accept that reality, you will feel a big sense of relief that you don't have to defend a book of myth.

We really are not singling you out because you are Muslim, and this is NOT a race or religion issue, this is a matter of how good logic works in reality, and how religion screws up our species ability to reason.

I don't take it personally as an attack towards me or Islam. I understand that you speak against all religions that worship a deity. But my thing, I fear what Allah has as punishment for wrong doers and disbelievers and have assurety of what Allah has promised as a reward for me for believing His word, seeking His forgiveness, worshipping Him alone, and doing righteous deeds. So why just enjoy everything you want in this life, when it is temporary, and have eternal punishment in the next life, when you can believe and do good in this temporary life and have all u desire, an innumerable amount of times better than everything now, and have it for all eternity?

(January 26, 2016 at 9:53 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 26, 2016 at 11:14 am)Brian37 Wrote: Oh how the stench of your own irony is lost on you.

"TO YOU"

Yea and that is what we are trying to get you to see. 

"TO YOU' is not an argument.

To others Jesus and the bible are right and YOU are wrong.

To others Yahweh is right and Muslims and Christians are wrong.

To others Hindus and the Vedas are right and everyone else is wrong.

To you, yea, sure, if you want to believe Allah is the one true god, and the Koran is his word, sure, if you want to believe that badly enough, you will. We are trying to tell you everyone falls for their emotions and everyone has books they like. You claiming to be special and different is not different than anyone of other religions.

I would suggest you merely like what you believe, and I would also suggest that humans make up ALL ALL ALL these religions because humans prefer a comforting lie over a a harsh reality. The good news for humanity, is they do not have to fear a finite existence. The bad news is humans are so stuck in an antiquated chase for a non existent utopia they cant see that they don't need any religion to do good or be good.

Do yourself a favor and stop being paranoid about our challenges to you. Nothing bad will happen to you in reality if you figure out what we have. And if you do accept that reality, you will feel a big sense of relief that you don't have to defend a book of myth.

We really are not singling you out because you are Muslim, and this is NOT a race or religion issue, this is a matter of how good logic works in reality, and how religion screws up our species ability to reason.

I don't take it personally as an attack towards me or Islam. I understand that you speak against all religions that worship a deity. But my thing, I fear what Allah has as punishment for wrong doers and disbelievers and have assurety of what Allah has promised as a reward for me for believing His word, seeking His forgiveness, worshipping Him alone, and doing righteous deeds. So why just enjoy everything you want in this life, when it is temporary, and have eternal punishment in the next life, when you can believe and do good in this temporary life and have all u desire, an innumerable amount of times better than everything now, and have it for all eternity?

Yawn.

(January 27, 2016 at 3:41 am)Mancunian Wrote:

(January 26, 2016 at 9:53 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: I don't take it personally as an attack towards me or Islam. I understand that you speak against all religions that worship a deity. But my thing, I fear what Allah has as punishment for wrong doers and disbelievers and have assurety of what Allah has promised as a reward for me for believing His word, seeking His forgiveness, worshipping Him alone, and doing righteous deeds. So why just enjoy everything you want in this life, when it is temporary, and have eternal punishment in the next life, when you can believe and do good in this temporary life and have all u desire, an innumerable amount of times better than everything now, and have it for all eternity?

Yawn.

"Jesus said", yawn
"Yahweh said",yawn
"Buddha said", yawn
"Vishnu said", yawn

What is funny is you really think you are different than everyone else.

(January 27, 2016 at 3:41 am)Mancunian Wrote:

(January 26, 2016 at 9:53 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: I don't take it personally as an attack towards me or Islam. I understand that you speak against all religions that worship a deity. But my thing, I fear what Allah has as punishment for wrong doers and disbelievers and have assurety of what Allah has promised as a reward for me for believing His word, seeking His forgiveness, worshipping Him alone, and doing righteous deeds. So why just enjoy everything you want in this life, when it is temporary, and have eternal punishment in the next life, when you can believe and do good in this temporary life and have all u desire, an innumerable amount of times better than everything now, and have it for all eternity?

Yawn.

"Jesus said", yawn
"Yahweh said",yawn
"Buddha said", yawn
"Vishnu said", yawn

What is funny is they really think they are different than everyone else.

OK, so you're in the religion because you're scared to not be in it. And because of promises of loads of stuff "after you die". This is the classic carrot and stick technique religion uses. When you cut through all the fallacious arguments, this is one of the few honest responses I actually hear.

Isn't it weird how you're not similarly scared that Christianity might be true and you'll go to Christian hell?

What about all the other religions? Why exactly is it Islam or nothing? They all use the same trick. Believe, or suffer! Believe, and you get free stuff!

Why would you worship a monster who holds your soul hostage? This is negotiating with terrorists.

This is what indoctrination does to people. It programs them to obey, based on an intangible threat which has been forced into their brain and which can never be tested. The threat is associated with a particular religion, of course, which is why this Pascal's wager kind of thinking is so prevalent.

However, either you really believe in Isam or you don't. If you "choose to believe" it because of fear, then you don't actually believe it. You're just saying you do, and you hope that will fool Allah. Do you think Allah is so easily duped?

Neither does it all become real just because you (say you) believe in it. It's real, or it's not.

(It's not. If there is a god, it is not one of the petty, humanoid, childish temper tantrum throwing contradictory idiots in old story books.)

(January 27, 2016 at 3:51 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 27, 2016 at 3:41 am)Mancunian Wrote: Yawn.

"Jesus said", yawn
"Yahweh said",yawn
"Buddha said", yawn
"Vishnu said", yawn

What is funny is you really think you are different than everyone else.

The word that stands out here is FEAR, It's a great experience for me not to have to live in fear.

(January 27, 2016 at 3:51 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 27, 2016 at 3:41 am)Mancunian Wrote: Yawn.

"Jesus said", yawn
"Yahweh said",yawn
"Buddha said", yawn
"Vishnu said", yawn

What is funny is you really think you are different than everyone else.

Well I as a Muslim don't worship Jesus pbuh, or Buddah, or Vishnu. Yahweh is a name for God but in the Hebrew language. Since I worship God in the Arabic language I call Him Allah.