(February 5, 2016 at 1:24 am)scoobysnack Wrote:

(February 5, 2016 at 12:22 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: And have you researched hundreds of NDE claims from countries/regions that are not predominantly christian?

Yes I have, but I would be foolish to claim I'm wise because that would require knowledge, information and experience. I've never had an NDE or OBE. I researched many collectively from Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, gay people, Native Americans, and from that research have come to high level conclusions. Almost like seeing things from a birds eye view of a battlefield rather than the eyes of one soldier. If you are interested you can read my thread where I posted more about the afterlife here:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-41204-page-34.html

Thanks. I'm headed over there now. 

(February 5, 2016 at 12:58 pm)athrock Wrote: Is atheism really only one step away from monotheism?

I would have thought that was two steps: atheism > theism > monotheism.

Even three if you place deism before theism.

Just thinking out loud...not quarreling with you.

Absent evidence, this is how it should look:

atheism > indoctrination > monotheism

(February 5, 2016 at 12:45 pm)athrock Wrote:

(February 5, 2016 at 9:39 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: I liked the article. I can relate to the author. I understand what she says. She's perfectly rational about it. She appears to be an atheist and doesn't mischaracterize atheism as some here have hinted that she does.

---

Yes, I felt the author's story echoes that of many forum members, and that she did a good job of explaining both atheism as well as the reasons for her conversion.

It seems to me that the idea that our brains are pre-wired for God-consciousness serves both theists and atheists alike.

The atheist will hear this and say, "See! Man did create god because our brains have some quirk that causes us to do this."

The theist will say, "See! God has placed this receptivity within us so that it is easier for us to seek Him."

---

Quote: And since both sides can claim victory, nothing has changed. The battle continues as before.  :  

(February 5, 2016 at 2:48 am)robvalue Wrote: If God tried to make us so we would believe in him, then guess what? He failed. If it was so damn important to him, he should have given us proper sensory equipment so we could actually detect him and/or stop hiding like a little bitch.

Even then, I'm not looking for things to worship. I'm not looking to be told how to live my life by commandment. I'll happily have a sensible conversation with him. His feeble attempts to communicate so far through ancient texts coupled with contradictory, unconvincing accounts from theists is how a dribbling maniac would communicate. Or perhaps, someone with very little power who makes a last desperate attempt to get someone to notice them. Like a message in a bottle.

Your flat was pre-wired for cable. You still have to subscribe and pay the monthly bill. But the potential for watching cable is there.

God may have pre-wired your brain for faith, but He's not going to trample your free will. You still have to act on that possibility.

(February 5, 2016 at 12:56 pm)athrock Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 11:50 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Humans have the ability to imagine. Explains why people see faces in places and things where there is no face. Unfortunately, someone back in time imagined a god(s) and it stuck. Then, eventually, it became a bane to humanity.

As to why the author can't shake god I can only guess. Based on what she said in the article my guess is that she finds it comforting (though she admits irrational) on some level. If that gets her through her day(s) that's OK. For me, I'm not buying it.

Bully for you.

Still, I wonder how many atheists here privately share her experience of the presence of the God-who-does-not-exist in their daily lives.

More than will admit it publicly, I'm sure.

Well, according to one study, even atheists can be physiologically affected by statements daring God doing bad things to their loved ones (such as paralyzing one's mother). Link to abstract:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.10...013.771991

Quote:We examined whether atheists exhibit evidence of emotional arousal when they dare God to cause harm to themselves and their intimates. In Study 1, the participants (16 atheists, 13 religious individuals) read aloud 36 statements of three different types: God, offensive, and neutral. In Study 2 (N = 19 atheists), 10 new stimulus statements were included in which atheists wished for negative events to occur. The atheists did not think the God statements were as unpleasant as the religious participants did in their verbal reports. However, the skin conductance level showed that asking God to do awful things was equally stressful to atheists as it was to religious people and that atheists were more affected by God statements than by wish or offensive statements. The results imply that atheists' attitudes toward God are ambivalent in that their explicit beliefs conflict with their affective response.

Of course, the sample size seems a little questionable, but even so, this does not mean these atheists subconsciously believed in God, but it does hint that even when we know certain superstitious beliefs to be irrational, we often struggle to not be impacted by them (google Hitler's sweater study for another example).

Hah, I love the title of that article.

(February 5, 2016 at 1:08 pm)athrock Wrote:

(February 5, 2016 at 2:48 am)robvalue Wrote: If God tried to make us so we would believe in him, then guess what? He failed. If it was so damn important to him, he should have given us proper sensory equipment so we could actually detect him and/or stop hiding like a little bitch.

Even then, I'm not looking for things to worship. I'm not looking to be told how to live my life by commandment. I'll happily have a sensible conversation with him. His feeble attempts to communicate so far through ancient texts coupled with contradictory, unconvincing accounts from theists is how a dribbling maniac would communicate. Or perhaps, someone with very little power who makes a last desperate attempt to get someone to notice them. Like a message in a bottle.

Your flat was pre-wired for cable. You still have to subscribe and pay the monthly bill. But the potential for watching cable is there.

God may have pre-wired your brain for faith, but He's not going to trample your free will. You still have to act on that possibility.

Ah, but it's so easy to prove that cable exists.  And so impossible to prove that god exists.  That is god's failure, if there is such a creature, not ours.  And your silly analogy will only work when proof does exist.  Until then,   

(February 5, 2016 at 1:00 pm)athrock Wrote:

(February 5, 2016 at 12:22 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: And have you researched hundreds of NDE claims from countries/regions that are not predominantly christian?

I haven't. Have you? 

If so, what can you tell us about them?

I never claimed that i had. But, since you asked, instead of duplicating the efforts of those who have gone before me, I've read studies by qualified scientists and found no reason to believe NDEs are anything more than the effects of hypoxia on a mind struggling to survive.

Have you got something other than unsupported assertions to counter that with?

S'funny how NDE's seem to correlate with whatever religion the person was raised in..

(February 5, 2016 at 12:56 pm)athrock Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 11:50 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Humans have the ability to imagine. Explains why people see faces in places and things where there is no face. Unfortunately, someone back in time imagined a god(s) and it stuck. Then, eventually, it became a bane to humanity.

As to why the author can't shake god I can only guess. Based on what she said in the article my guess is that she finds it comforting (though she admits irrational) on some level. If that gets her through her day(s) that's OK. For me, I'm not buying it.

Bully for you.

Still, I wonder how many atheists here privately share her experience of the presence of the God-who-does-not-exist in their daily lives.

More than will admit it publicly, I'm sure.

Hell. jesus h christ. I still swear in xtian.  Does that count as an admission?

No? god damn it!