(February 5, 2016 at 1:24 am)scoobysnack Wrote:

(February 5, 2016 at 12:22 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: And have you researched hundreds of NDE claims from countries/regions that are not predominantly christian?

Yes I have, but I would be foolish to claim I'm wise because that would require knowledge, information and experience. I've never had an NDE or OBE. I researched many collectively from Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, gay people, Native Americans, and from that research have come to high level conclusions. Almost like seeing things from a birds eye view of a battlefield rather than the eyes of one soldier. If you are interested you can read my thread where I posted more about the afterlife here:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-41204-page-34.html

Researching claims of NDEs from people of other faiths is not what I asked, but seems to be how you answered (please correct me if I'm wrong). People who live in cultures not steeped in christianity tend to experience NDEs in line with their cultural norms. Unless you subscribe to the notion that all gods are merely faces of the one true god, how can you reconcile that with the idea that NDEs point to your idea of god?

(February 5, 2016 at 11:14 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm an atheist. So why can't I shake God's hand?

Wouldn't that work for the theist also?

(February 5, 2016 at 2:41 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(February 5, 2016 at 1:03 am)Evie Wrote: Tempted to create a parody thread "I'm a theist. So why can't I bring myself to believe in that religious horseshit?".

I support this idea and turtles, but mostly this idea.

It is done.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-41393.html

(February 5, 2016 at 12:58 pm)athrock Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 11:54 pm)Nestor Wrote: Atheism is a step away from monotheism.
Monotheism is a step away from henotheism.
Henotheism is a step away from polytheism.
Polytheism is a step away from anthropomorphism.
Anthropomorphism is a step away from animism.
Animism is a step away from teleologism.
Teleologism is a step away from intentionality.

And guess what?

Human beings are intentional. Moreover, they're animate and teleological, and.... (wait for it)... the steps I've outlined can be traced throughout their history as progress they have made in storytelling!

Mystery solved!

Is atheism really only one step away from monotheism?

I would have thought that was two steps: atheism > theism > monotheism.

Even three if you place deism before theism.

Just thinking out loud...not quarreling with you.

I suspect he meant that atheism is closer to monotheism because of the reduction of deities over polytheism.  You've rid yourself of every god dreamt of by man except one.  We're ahead of you by one.

Exactly right Whatev.

Richard Dawkins Wrote:We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.

You can't shake god because from you're still very little and can't think for yourself, you are instilled with fear. Fear is a very effective instrument of religion. Faith based fear, mmm, even more effective.

Haha lolz. This is a classic example of Morton's Fork:

If we are hard-wired to believe in god, it shows that atheism is abnormal and god made it easier for us to believe in him, so he must be real.
If we are not hard-wired to believe in god, the fact that so many people believe in him shows that the evidence for god is so strong that he must be real.

Far more likely is that 1) it was evolutionarily advantageous to ascribe human characteristics to non-human objects, 2) it was evolutionarily advantageous to fill in gaps to complete patterns, and 3) early humans ascribed human characteristics to the gaps in the patterns they saw around them.

Is this supposed the atheists being angry at god talking point in a new guise?

Why are we wired to faith? I for one am not wired to faith. I don't believe, period. Cavemen did, looking at the sun and the moon, not being able to explain them. Hence, gods. That's where it came from. And many people still are cavemen at heart. Not being able to explain certain things, so it must be god. Their favorite flavor of god, of course.

(February 5, 2016 at 6:00 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 10:10 pm)athrock Wrote: Turns out it's pretty hard to believe in nothing when your psyche is wired for faith.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/postevery...age%2Fcard

After reading the article, my questions are:

Why on God's green earth is the human brain wired for faith when our development is the result of purely evolutionary processes with no supreme being involved at all?

Is it possible that God gave us brains that are pre-wired for receptivity to His existence to make it easier for us to believe in Him?

No. How does that even make any sense? Why would you even bother doing that when its within your power just to make people believe in the first place? Isn't it a contradiction to the entire free will thing if you give people a predisposition to make it easier for people to believe in you? How would you know the difference that you'd 'found god' the legitimate way (whatever that is) as opposed to just becoming a slave to your predisposition?

And how does that solve the issue of the vast majority of the world not believing in the same given deity as everyone else? Did 'God' (which one? How defined?) screw up this predisposition wiring to make humans jump at shadows and mistake everything to be 'God' without really giving them a frame of reference? Does it regret people believing in Vishnu or tikka-takku the coconut god?

If I were a theist I wouldn't go anywhere near this line of thinking. It's shoddy and even more full of contradictions and holes than the usual rhetoric.

How would God be able to reveal His existence without impacting your free will to accept or not accept Him as your Lord?

For example, if He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, then many (like Hitchens and many member of the forum) would resent Him as the ultimate Big Brother.

Others would choose to worship Him out of fear (the very thing that forum members SCREAM about every time the existence of hell is mentioned).

So, how does God strike a balance between giving you (a mere speck of material in a purely natural world) the ability to perceive the existence of the supernatural Creator of that world without so overwhelming you with His glory that you are coerced into worshiping Him?

(Oh, and the "different gods" bit? Theologians accept that Christians, Muslims and others do worship the same God - but they have different impressions of him based upon the paths they have followed to find him.)

(February 5, 2016 at 6:13 am)Iroscato Wrote: Wait, I thought evolution was a damned filthy lie spread by Satan? I just can't keep up these days...

You have been learning bad theology.