OP ED,(Resulted from a twitter user I blocked after they falsely accused me of condoning rape and being a terrorist sympathizer)

If one wants to point out the justifications for violence in the Quran, yes and you'd be right, including rape. Many know the rash of rapes in Europe from refugees. Nobody is denying it, or should deny it, and nobody is denying who did it. But one thing you will not get away with with me personally is falsely accusing me of condoning rape. I am quite sure even some of the female users here and or users know of a family member or friend or co worker who has been raped. My mom was raped when I was still in HS. I remember being pulled out of class and told by front office staff, she'd been raped. Fast forward meet my biological family after being separated at 5 years old given up for adoption, meet them in 96. Over the years I learn more about them and find out BOTH my older sister and younger sister had been raped.

The argument against refugees is that they import crime, in this case rape. Now, it isn't pointing out that rape is justified in the Quran, that would be attacking the idea, but this is not what most who justify bigotry are doing. Ayaan would be with skeptics of Islam, but this is just plane old Xenophobic bigotry.

Rape exists worldwide in every nation. If you are going to work to reduce it, you STILL have to separate ideas that come out of books, which is fine to go after, and flat out carpet bombing presumption of guilt. 

Rape and all acts of human cruelty have existed worldwide throughout or species history. It is one thing to point out religious justifications for cruelty, but it flat out wrong to pretend one label owns a patent on bad behavior, just like it is wrong for any label to pretend to own a patent on being good.

ttps://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/violent-crime/rape

article Wrote:There were an estimated 84,376 forcible rapes reported to law enforcement in 2012.

Yes, but when a major religion starts getting used as a justification for crimes, we should speak out against both.

(February 18, 2016 at 8:28 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Yes, but when a major religion starts getting used as a justification for crimes, we should speak out against both.

I was really hoping nobody would miss my point. But you managed to do just that.

I was trying to point out the difference between attacking ideas, and xenophobia. Ayaan Hirsi Ali lived it and still lives under threat of sexist men using the Quran that lead a man to murder her documentary friend for her exposing the sexism in the Quran. 

The point is you can go after religiously justified cruelty without being a xenophobe. It is no different to me than Trump scaring the crap out of voters saying undocumented Mexicans import drug dealers and rapists. You can rightfully point out the verses in the Quran that justify cruelty, without using carpet bombing presumption of guilt. Just like gangs in Mexico do exist and smuggle drugs and even humans, still would not make it humane to presume the guilt of my Hispanic neighbors on both sides of me who have never caused me any problems, not noisy in the least, nor are they drug dealers or rapists.

You can go after bad ideas as you should, but my advice is to treat everyone as an individual first while rightfully doing that.

What is this hysteria good for? Do you really think any liberal would be against the people and not the idea? The reality of it is a lot of people who proclaim those ideas think and do evil things because they feel justified. That's simply the reality of it. They are to blame, at least partially, for it.

Do we blame the nazis? Were they all bad people? That's what you sound like to me. I don't think we should hate muslims but I do think we should be careful when opening Europe up to an extremely different culture like that.

Inb4 I'm called a bigot and a racist, I don't give a flying fuck what you call me. I'm interested in the truth and I'm not to be intimidated with bullshit labels.

(February 18, 2016 at 8:51 am)Brian37 Wrote: You can go after bad ideas as you should, but my advice is to treat everyone as an individual first while rightfully doing that.

Yes I agree that everyone should be treated as an individual first, but that only works if both sides agree and act like it.

We approach people based on what we know about them. If we don't know much about an individual we have to rely on other information and some generalisations. If someone identifies as an individual, we can treat them as such, but if a stranger identifies solely by his religion then I'll only have that little info to rely on, and if the general knowledge suggests that as a dangerous religion, I'll obviously be on guard till I find out more about that person.

Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting all muslims should be judged by their religion, I spent a good half of my childhood in a muslim neighbourhood and I never felt I or my family was any different from them. They were very normal, friendly people. But that alone won't cause me to trust or distrust a person. What determines my approach is simply how much and what info I have regarding that person.

(February 18, 2016 at 8:59 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: What is this hysteria good for? Do you really think any liberal would be against the people and not the idea? The reality of it is a lot of people who proclaim those ideas think and do evil things because they feel justified. That's simply the reality of it. They are to blame, at least partially, for it.

Do we blame the nazis? Were they all bad people? That's what you sound like to me. I don't think we should hate muslims but I do think we should be careful when opening Europe up to an extremely different culture like that.

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!

That is the same argument I got from the guy I blocked!

Listen chicken little, "the sky is falling" attitude is panic, paranoia that has nothing to do with pragmatic solutions. Stop accusing me of ignoring that the Quran IS used to justify cruelty, never claimed it wasn't. If you go back and read my posts I have agreed IT IS.

There is a right way to put a mirror up to the face of Islam, and a wrong way. Scaring the shit out of everyone to the point it is merely justifying bigotry. Attacking religious justifications for violence IS FINE, not only fine, but required to reduce and minimize the harm to our fellow humans.

YOU are freaking out merely because I said presumption of guilt of the individual, IS NOT the way to put that mirror up to Islam.

THIS is how you combat religiously justified violence......

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/.../long.html

Not,

"They all do it lets assume guilt by association". 

You hurt people like Ayaan, you hurt people like Malala, and Nada, by carpet bombing presumption of guilt. 

If you want the Middle East to get with the modern pluralistic west, you can attack the claims without presuming the guilt of the individual.

I would have the same feeling of wanting to kick someone in the nuts if they accused my mom of protecting pedophile priests because she is still Catholic. I was the first to jump all over the Pope for his stupid fucking comment about "don't pick on religion, it is like picking on someone's mom". I attack the the institution, I attack the idea that any holy book is our source of morality.

But, as Penn Rightfully said, "don't hate the faithful, hate faith itself, fuck faith".

I am not even arguing you are wrong about Islam, I am only arguing tactic,  not intent.

I am a liberal, but not a blind politically correct liberal. I go after Islam too, and the current state of Islam is still in the East far too theocratic and religiously fascist. But in attacking that climate, what I refuse to do, is lose my sense of humanity. I refuse to presume guilt of the individual by proxy of label. I go after claims and climates as a larger sample, but individuals no.

What a word salad. Tl;dr.

(February 18, 2016 at 9:55 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: What a word salad. Tl;dr.

We are individuals first is word salad? We are the same species is word salad? OK.

(February 18, 2016 at 10:30 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(February 18, 2016 at 9:55 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: What a word salad. Tl;dr.

We are individuals first is word salad? We are the same species is word salad? OK.

I highly doubt it that you're the same species as me. I think you're an SJW alien from another galaxy.