Only till she sees it.

Then it apparently ascends to heaven.

Is heaven the name of a shoe store on the top floor of some shopping mall you live near?

I need to keep my wife away from heaven then.

(March 4, 2011 at 12:43 pm)theVOID Wrote: "Probably know" is potentially self refuting, it wouldn't be if you define knowledge as a "true justified belief",

That I claim that I probably know just means that I am claiming that I am probably aware. In other words: What I'm aware of around me is more likely to be an absence of God rather than a portion of his omnipresence in all things (because he is more probable to exist than not).

(March 4, 2011 at 3:13 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote:

(March 4, 2011 at 12:43 pm)theVOID Wrote: "Probably know" is potentially self refuting, it wouldn't be if you define knowledge as a "true justified belief",

That I claim that I probably know just means that I am claiming that I am probably aware. In other words: What I'm aware of around me is more likely to be an absence of God rather than a portion of his omnipresence in all things (because he is more probable to exist than not).

That didn't answer my contention, you just re stated what I contended to being with...

Let's start somewhat fresh, for clarity.

You define 'knowledge' as awareness.

How do you define awareness?

Don't humans make up gods? In that sense, yes, there are no gods. However, if your definition of "god" is any possible being or power outside of the natural world (or merely our awareness), then you cannot possibly know such a thing. The definition of "god" is yet to be solidified, because people stick to connotations and idealism more than making sure language remains robust.

Quote:Don't humans make up gods?

Of course but with the proviso that every religious bozo thinks every other god is made up but not their own.

(March 4, 2011 at 4:17 pm)Spectrum Wrote: Don't humans make up gods? In that sense, yes, there are no gods. However, if your definition of "god" is any possible being or power outside of the natural world (or merely our awareness), then you cannot possibly know such a thing. The definition of "god" is yet to be solidified, because people stick to connotations and idealism more than making sure language remains robust.

Im with spectrum on this... I can read the bible and pretty much find clues that are fictional, so therefore I am justified to say Jesus and biblegod are fictional, same with quran, etc...but something such as the deist god...who knows. Maybe its true, maybe it isnt..either way it is absurd to believe in it...just like it is absurd to worship a god based on fiction.

(March 4, 2011 at 4:30 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Don't humans make up gods?

Of course but with the proviso that every religious bozo thinks every other god is made up but not their own.

And yet, I still want to know how they rationalize that within their minds. >__>

(March 4, 2011 at 5:39 pm)Spectrum Wrote:

(March 4, 2011 at 4:30 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Don't humans make up gods?

Of course but with the proviso that every religious bozo thinks every other god is made up but not their own.

And yet, I still want to know how they rationalize that within their minds. >__>

I suspect they consider themselves fortunate that the religion they inherited from their parents, just happens to be the right one.

The problem lies in your definition of 'knowledge as being not merely awareness but self-awareness, DvF. The two aren't compatible unless you take an objective stance; that is, that you have a way of going beyond your own limited perspective and seeing the world, as well as the universe itself, from that stance.