(April 6, 2016 at 8:39 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 8:38 pm)AAA Wrote: Yeah, well people stopped replying to me last time, so I figured I'd give it another try

Actually while you mention that, you never responded to me.

Are you sure? I must have missed it. Either way, saying that there is no designer because people get cancer is a poor argument.

The thing is Jesus was god in the flesh to experience what his creation was going through, and give them knowledge. This is why most people hate christianity. They don't want to accept their is a higher power, or that what they do will be judged, and most prefer hell because they think it's going to be a party, or prefer to not even believe in that so they can have a party here.

(April 6, 2016 at 8:44 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 8:29 pm)AAA Wrote: It is a case for a designer. There are other reasons that I think it was the Christian God, but I would rather stick with the biological evidence. You would apparently rather slap and run. It's fine if you don't want to talk about that, but don't refer me to an article calling me delusional when you won't even discuss it.

No one is running.  I also don't see the point of repeating this entire thread.  You only rely on biology when you think it gets you to a designer (which it doesn't), and then after that, all bets are off and magic gets to come in and play.  Sorry, but you don't get to have it both ways.

Why is it magic? Is it magic that engineers use to make machines? Is it magic that video game programmers use to make electronic realities? I don't see why design means magic in your mind.

(April 6, 2016 at 8:51 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: This is why most people hate christianity. They don't want to accept their is a higher power, or that what they do will be judged, and most prefer hell because they think it's going to be a party, or prefer to not even believe in that so they can have a party here.

None of those reasons apply to me.

(April 6, 2016 at 8:51 pm)AAA Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 8:39 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Actually while you mention that, you never responded to me.

Are you sure? I must have missed it. Either way, saying that there is no designer because people get cancer is a poor argument.

You have yet to demonstrate that. If God created everything; then God either created cancer purposefully or didn't correct his mistake, meaning God is either malevolent or incompetent.

(April 6, 2016 at 8:52 pm)AAA Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 8:44 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: No one is running.  I also don't see the point of repeating this entire thread.  You only rely on biology when you think it gets you to a designer (which it doesn't), and then after that, all bets are off and magic gets to come in and play.  Sorry, but you don't get to have it both ways.

Why is it magic? Is it magic that engineers use to make machines? Is it magic that video game programmers use to make electronic realities? I don't see why design means magic in your mind.

It's magic when you say, "science not applicable."

Don't you see how intellectually dishonest it is to say:

"Y and Z simply could NOT have happened because...rules of science!

Therefore God -

and therefore everything in my holy book, because God doesn't have to follow rules of science. He can do whatever he wants - magic."

(April 6, 2016 at 8:53 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 8:51 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: This is why most people hate christianity. They don't want to accept their is a higher power, or that what they do will be judged, and most prefer hell because they think it's going to be a party, or prefer to not even believe in that so they can have a party here.

None of those reasons apply to me.

Me neither.

(April 6, 2016 at 8:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 8:52 pm)AAA Wrote: Why is it magic? Is it magic that engineers use to make machines? Is it magic that video game programmers use to make electronic realities? I don't see why design means magic in your mind.

It's magic when you say, "science not applicable."

Don't you see how intellectually dishonest it is to say:

"Y and Z simply could NOT have happened because...rules of science!  

Therefore God -

and therefore everything in my holy book,  because God doesn't have to follow rules of science.  He can do whatever he wants - magic."

I didn't say science is not applicable. I also never mentioned the Bible. I also don't think that I said Y and Z couldn't have happened because of rules of science. 

I feel like you are confusing me with someone else, or you just made a whole bunch of straw men.

(April 6, 2016 at 9:10 pm)AAA Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 8:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: It's magic when you say, "science not applicable."

Don't you see how intellectually dishonest it is to say:

"Y and Z simply could NOT have happened because...rules of science!  

Therefore God -

and therefore everything in my holy book,  because God doesn't have to follow rules of science.  He can do whatever he wants - magic."

I didn't say science is not applicable. I also never mentioned the Bible. I also don't think that I said Y and Z couldn't have happened because of rules of science. 

I feel like you are confusing me with someone else, or you just made a whole bunch of straw men.

*sigh*

1. You are very clearly asserting that complex life from chemistry is scientifically impossible. Yes?

2. You have disclosed in the past that you are Christian. I'm sorry for making an assumption that you put at least some stock in the bible. Am I wrong?

(April 6, 2016 at 8:59 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 8:51 pm)AAA Wrote: Are you sure? I must have missed it. Either way, saying that there is no designer because people get cancer is a poor argument.

You have yet to demonstrate that. If God created everything; then God either created cancer purposefully or didn't correct his mistake, meaning God is either malevolent or incompetent.

What it really seems to boil down to is that because the universe is not perfect, there is no designer? Is that a fair summary of your point? 

Also I like I said before, the same laws of chemistry that enable life as we know it to exist also allow molecules to unfavorably interact with DNA to damage it. 

Maybe the fact that biological systems are damageable is a sign that we are becoming genetically weaker as a biosphere, which points to the idea that it was once superior in the past. It indicates that we are declining rather than improving.