(April 21, 2016 at 4:56 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 21, 2016 at 1:13 pm)abaris Wrote: Love, real love, not just the word, gets you further than any kind of abuse. I never had children, but I have my fair share of experiences with dogs. And love is also the ultimate respect you can show any being. Good intentions are understood, even by animals. Why should kids be any different? I at least remember my parents with fondness, since they always took time to tell me why I did something wrong and not just took a bat or a belt to me. As I said before, the stories my father told me from his own life, still stick. Just stories, but they made it clear why it's a good thing to listen to your parents and their experiences.

Remember you are not allowed to teach about love as you only seem to understand 1/3 of the word, and shunned any attempt to broaden your narrow minded definition of the word.

Fuck you. I had a dad who thought like you, no thanks.

(April 21, 2016 at 1:34 pm)Divinity Wrote: I raised six kids.  Two daughters, three sons, one sister.  Mostly by myself.  I never once hit any of my kids.  All but one of them turned out great.  The other is just a douche.  I blame his father.   DNA is responsible for that one.  But he's still not violent.  All of them are adults now, all but my sister are married, most of them have kids.  (Only my sister and my youngest daughter doesn't, and she's a lesbian).  Their kids are turning out okay too, and they don't spank either because I didn't raise them that way.  

You know how you get kids to turn out good?  Be involved with their lives.  Show them love, support, and compassion.  Give appropriate discipline when necessary.  

No offense, but you can also lower your expectation and definition of the word. so matter what they do (unless they just piss you off) they in your eye are just good people.

Quote:I was a very lenient mother.  My kids could get away with pretty much everything.  You know why they turned out well?  

Yeah, I do. for the same reason Ma Barker also thought her boys could do no wrong.

Quote:Because they learned the lessons they needed to learn.  You know why they did?  Because I made sure they did, and i didn't need to spank them to get through to them.  I wonder how these people get through to their kids when they get too old for spankings.

It depends on the kid if you do it right and you have the right kid you may not have to do it but a hand full of times ever.

If your still spanking after ten either something is wrong with what you are doing or something is not right with the kid and he/she may need "special" rules and constant attention.

(April 21, 2016 at 4:06 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(April 21, 2016 at 12:08 pm)Drich Wrote: the web page does speak to technique it's just a pastry piece designed to allow empathizers to gorge themselves or personal character flaws so as to try and discredit the man without having to address (any) merits of his work may have.

You know the kind of mindless zombie crap you guys have been doing here to me.

I don't know his work so I can not say one way or another.

I'm not doing anything to you here.

I asked a simple question.

The article does do a good job in pointing out what vile individuals the Pearls are.

that's my point sportress It only talks about framing those people in a negitive light. You asked me to evaluate their book on parenting. The article does not go into detail of the article just says what horrible people they are.

I am not like you. I can not/will not evaluate someone's work based on what i think of them personally. To me truth is truth no matter who or where it comes from. I do not discern truth based on what I think about someone. Therefore i can not make a judgement based on what the wiki page says about their book.

It says something about holding a child in cold water, and placing a cookie in front of a toddler and telling them no.
I've done both.

I've had a kid with 104.5*F fever and he was delirious I held him down in an Ice bath while he struggled to get his temp down.
-and-
Then I have had a whole bowl of M&Ms on a coffee table set out for guests and told the kids not to touch it.

Does that make me a bad person? Is Putting a kid in freezing wate ALWAYS a bad thing? No it can save a life or at the very least prevent brain damage. again Context frames the truth. Now if you weren't an easily manipulated douche, and you read the actual book this web page cherry picks from and you see these two examples framed out like this or in a similar fashion does it mean these 'supposedly bad people' did something wrong?

No.

But again the web page does not do that. It cherry picks two instances and fills an empty mind with a "kill the messenger and you will have destroyed the message" sentiment.

And this is what you want me to do. you want me to look at what someone says makes these people bad, and condem the work before I even can evaluate it.

That is what I'm saying is the majority approach done here to me. attack the messenger because he can't spell, attack the messenger because his values are different, attack the messenger's up bringing, love, empathy, or fill in the blank at any one of the things you "good people" have done.

Not one of you has yet addressed the message. Not one of you has gone point by point line by line as i do with each on my responses. Just stories of past tragic failures, of broken people taking the easy way out of disipline and training by literally going through the motions, but non of the follow up.

So no. I will not be like one of you. i can not comment on a book when the information given is about the author.

(April 21, 2016 at 4:53 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 21, 2016 at 1:07 pm)Losty Wrote: Drich talks about this as if us "hippy butt clown parents" (or whatever he called us) have these awful children because we choose not to include regular beatings in our parenting styles.

My kids are fantastic. The two in school are on honor roll. Neither one has gotten a single citation the whole year. They've both been awarded student of the month at different times this year. They don't bully other kids. They understand the importance of kindness and helping others especially others that are smaller or less capable than they are.

I guess it's pure luck. I expect the lack of beatings to bring out their inner savage any day now.

No, i didn't say you had to beat your kids. I just said your a 'hippy free range butt clown" If you didn't and you let your kids do whatever they want. Some kids can be reasoned with. If you have kids smart enough to reason with them then you are indeed lucky or Losty (I forgot who is who now) if not and you have a monster who does not have the capacity for reason, and he needs someone to 'tap the brakes' once and a while and you don't, then you are raising a monster and inturn a bad person yourself because you cant do what needs to be done to reign in an out of control child.

I saw this lady once who had 6 kids at the local Mc donalds and they were literally climbing the walls, screaming and crying throwing ketchup packs at each other and at other customers. I look at the lady she was broken. I mouthed do you need help? she nodded, so i grabbed the biggest one by the arm and told him very sternly his mom just ask me to take him out side and tan is back side, if he did not calm down now. He looked up at her she nodded, and that was it. the other instantly fell back into line and did not say a word.

Again, they at the point of frenzy were beyond reason or control. It's obvious they knew what an spanking was well enough to know what i was threatening to do. I didn't have to do anything more than simply let them know their was someone willing and able to 'bring the pain' if common social behavior was not observed even if they did not understand any of those words.

The point? If you child need discipline then you must be willing to do whatever it takes no matter what to reel them in the frame work of our society (in my case system of belief) otherwise if you let them free range they will be unto you as you are unto Christianity.

Well that's the difference between myself and that woman. If my kids were acting out and I was broken. (It has happened back when I had 5 kids one with autism and I was very sick) If someone asked me if I needed help I may have said yes. If that someone proceeded to grab my child and threaten them that someone would be in jail for assault and battery.

My children are not angels. I am lucky because my kids are relatively easier than other kids. But I think a lot of that comes from my parenting style. My kids are not afraid. They trust me. They listen to what I ask of them because they know that I live my entire life for them. I do everything in my power to make sure they have all the things they want and need. I let them make their own choices (mostly with how they dress and small things). I listen to them and I respect their thoughts, opinions, and concerns. And I never ever hit them, nor would I ever allow anyone to ever hit them. I teach them constructive ways to solve conflicts. Just as I can stop a child for a talk about what choices we think are best and why we should and shouldn't do things, my kids can stop themselves and ask themselves these questions and make good choices...for themselves.

That's the reason they're good kids. Also, there are no kids who are monsters...only parents.

(April 21, 2016 at 4:11 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(April 21, 2016 at 10:34 am)Drich Wrote: keep reading sport.

I separated the term "turn out" to mean who the kid is/what his core values are, verses what he will be

Sure thing, Scrub. You won't even know their core values. You can hope they imbibe yours, but anyone who has raised children knows that they aren't automatons. Even the Phelps's of WBC notoriety have had a couple of their children repudiate the values of their parents, which were instilled with your obnoxious methodology.

You don't know shit, but you suffer too much pride to admit that basic fact.

How do you know one of the kids I raised is not already an adult and married and has a kid herself? And that she is not just like me except she says she will not vote for trump?

(April 21, 2016 at 4:28 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(April 21, 2016 at 10:48 am)Drich Wrote: http://atheistforums.org/thread-11671.html

As outlined in Thread #1 post #1

Ok, then; why are you still here? Your original intent obviously isn't working out...

Again I am sharing a topical news story...

And, how do you know it is not working out? Granted my target audience is small, but still present. I am here for the one or two as T1 P1 says.. not the rest of you. The rest of you are here for me.

(April 21, 2016 at 5:22 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 21, 2016 at 4:06 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: I'm not doing anything to you here.

I asked a simple question.

The article does do a good job in pointing out what vile individuals the Pearls are.

that's my point sportress It only talks about framing those people in a negitive light. You asked me to evaluate their book on parenting. The article does not go into detail of the article just says what horrible people they are.

I am not like you. I can not/will not evaluate someone's work based on what i think of them personally. To me truth is truth no matter who or where it comes from. I do not discern truth based on what I think about someone. Therefore i can not make a judgement based on what the wiki page says about their book.

It says something about holding a child in cold water, and placing a cookie in front of a toddler and telling them no.
I've done both.

I've had a kid with 104.5*F fever and he was delirious I held him down in an Ice bath while he struggled to get his temp down.
-and-
Then I have had a whole bowl of M&Ms on a coffee table set out for guests and told the kids not to touch it.

Does that make me a bad person? Is Putting a kid in freezing wate ALWAYS a bad thing? No it can save a life or at the very least prevent brain damage. again Context frames the truth. Now if you weren't an easily manipulated douche, and you read the actual book this web page cherry picks from and you see these two examples framed out like this or in a similar fashion does it mean these 'supposedly bad people' did something wrong?

No.

But again the web page does not do that. It cherry picks two instances and fills an empty mind with a "kill the messenger and you will have destroyed the message" sentiment.

And this is what you want me to do. you want me to look at what someone says makes these people bad, and condem the work before I even can evaluate it.

That is what I'm saying is the majority approach done here to me. attack the messenger because he can't spell, attack the messenger because his values are different, attack the messenger's up bringing, love, empathy, or fill in the blank at any one of the things you "good people" have done.

Not one of you has yet addressed the message. Not one of you has gone point by point line by line as i do with each on my responses. Just stories of past tragic failures, of broken people taking the easy way out of disipline and training by literally going through the motions, but non of the follow up.

So no. I will not be like one of you. i can not comment on a book when the information given is about the author.

No, the truth is you are not a college degree child psychiatrist or psychologist. Gaining submission through force isn't all there is to a kid's brain. But, considering you worship an authoritarian god not surprising you cant understand how wrong you are using simplistic binary black and white thinking.

(April 21, 2016 at 5:25 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 21, 2016 at 4:11 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Sure thing, Scrub. You won't even know their core values. You can hope they imbibe yours, but anyone who has raised children knows that they aren't automatons. Even the Phelps's of WBC notoriety have had a couple of their children repudiate the values of their parents, which were instilled with your obnoxious methodology.

You don't know shit, but you suffer too much pride to admit that basic fact.

How do you know one of the kids I raised is not already an adult and married and has a kid herself? And that she is not just like me except she says she will not vote for trump?

I don't. How do you know the future?

That's right, you don't. Dumbfuck. Prideful, ignorant dumbfuck. Prideful, ignorant, abusive, soulless dumbfuck.

(April 21, 2016 at 5:29 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 21, 2016 at 4:28 pm)The_Empress Wrote: Ok, then; why are you still here? Your original intent obviously isn't working out...

Again I am sharing a topical news story...

And, how do you know it is not working out? Granted my target audience is small, but still present. I am here for the one or two as T1 P1 says.. not the rest of you. The rest of you are here for me.

And you know what is also typical, kid becoming bullies themselves, others like me having trust issues because of mindsets like yours. There is a reason every state has Child Protective Services.

(April 21, 2016 at 5:03 pm)Drich Wrote: No offense, but you can also lower your expectation and definition of the word. so matter what they do (unless they just piss you off) they in your eye are just good people.

Yeah, I do. for the same reason Ma Barker also thought her boys could do no wrong.

It depends on the kid if you do it right and you have the right kid you may not have to do it but a hand full of times ever.

If your still spanking after ten either something is wrong with what you are doing or something is not right with the kid and he/she may need "special" rules and constant attention.

There's something wrong with your parenting if you ever HAVE to spank your child.  No offense, but your definition of 'good' is probably bullshit anyway based on your dogmatic christian values.  My kids aren't violent, and have never been in trouble with the law, nor have they done anything that would get them in trouble with the law.  I didn't need to spank, because I knew how to fucking parent.