(April 24, 2016 at 11:01 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: Is season six even following the books anymore?  I do not recall it all unfolding as it is in this premiere.

It depends on the storyline.  Many of them are past the books now.  Even the ones that aren't (such as the Iron Islands) will probably deviate quite a bit.  It probably doesn't pay to be totally faithful to the current source material at this point since the future source material will be non existent.  Next season we'll be in "A Dream of Spring" territory.  I think we'll be lucky if GRRM has finished "The Winds of Winter" by the season 7 premier.


At this point all they can do is write the best show they can, and I'll be happy if we end up in the same zip code at the end.  I have my doubts if this story will ever get finished in book form.

Very disappointing.

What was disappointing about it?

I was responding to Kosh's post.

(April 25, 2016 at 12:42 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Very disappointing.

I disagree and agree.

If your disappointment is with the show "going it's own way" I think you may suffer from a common aliment of first come first like. I see it kinda like Star Trek vs JJ Star Trek. It's a different "timeline". True the show since Season 4 has moved away from the books greatly. But I don't think that makes it any more or less good or bad. Just a different telling, a "what if".

If your disappointed because the books will never be finished... then the show becomes the cannon. In this I'm more with you. It is a shame when fame and fortune hijack a good tale. But that's as much on the author and his lack of desire and motivation as anything. He's already the biggest thing in show biz right now. I sincerely think I'd be hard pressed to continue such an enormous task having stuck it big so early in the completion of said task.

I am just disappointed that there was a show that primarily followed the books unlike any other show, only to discover that the show and books are no longer to be aligned properly.

(April 24, 2016 at 12:05 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote:

(April 23, 2016 at 10:38 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Whether you like or not, the show has taken an authority because there are people who haven't and won't read the books. I agree that the books, in my mind, will always be canon. But if some majorly important plot difference takes place between the two mediums (like who is the ruler at the end), then there will be a debate. Whether or not the debate is settled in your head makes no difference. The debate will take place, and I, for one can see good arguments on both sides.

in terms of the original idea and the story, I say the books are canon but I do think there is such a thing as book canon and show canon.  Just because something happens one way in the books doesn't mean it could or should happen that way in the show - characters are different, plots are a little different and you simply can't force them to be the same.

Someone brought up Harry Potter and that's a similar situation (with the obvious difference that the books were complete before the movies were). There is book canon and movie canon and it just so happens in that series that they could closely concide - but there are differences. Some differences are necessary (limiting lengths of speeches that deliver exposition), some were a lot of fun (the shrunken head in the Azkaban movie, the flight through London in the Phoenix movie...), some are unnecessary (moving the book 7 scene between Snape and Voldemort to the boathouse), some are bad/stupid (moving Harry and Voldemort's final battle to the courtyard).

(oh sorry, is my nerd showing? )

People will argue about book canon versus show canon until they're blue in the face but they are two different things - and I still say that ultimately the books will always be canon over the show simply because they came first and they are the original idea of the author.

It is okay (and fun!) to have the argument tho

I'd agree with you if this wasn't a strange case. Here we have the show, finishing well before the books. If the books finish at all. We might run into a Wheel of Time scenario. How can the books, being written so very far in the future after the shows have aired and not suspect that they may have some influence in the final written word? I don't think it's possible for a writer to see his creation written out one way, then fully produced in a series for TV format and not be influenced by that.

When the written is first, it's always the cannon. The show is the adaptation. When the book starts first but the show finishes first... I'm not sure what that is! I think the "cannon" becomes a bastard, a blend. I think George might like his cannon bastardized.

(April 25, 2016 at 1:41 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I am just disappointed that there was a show that primarily followed the books unlike any other show, only to discover that the show and books are no longer to be aligned properly.

In that I can agree. However I do suspect it may have, in part, been because they didn't have a firm from GRRM where the story was going. So they set up their characters to continue the story they best way they could make it out to be.

I think GRRM kinda fell off the wagon of his own legacy.

I agree, Goosebump. The only way I see it actually aligning is if the writer provided the show with an outline.

(April 25, 2016 at 1:45 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I agree, Goosebump.  The only way I see it actually aligning is if the writer provided the show with an outline.

My more cynical view is that the show writers have become the victims of the source materials success. Few things cause as much free press (social, word of mouth, even some stupid morning shows) as in season one when Ned Stark, the most well known actor cast, was killed off.

****SPOILER****

Tonight's episode kinda perpetuated the continuing, murder them first, write it later the show has gotten it's self into. Ned Stark's, Jon Snow's, Tywin Lanister's deaths were dramatic and unexpected, and all written years ago. The Prince of Dorn's was... pointless. He'd barely been establish as a charter and hardly had the gravitas even in the books to make his murder in anyway profound.