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(May 3, 2016 at 5:40 pm)Godschild Wrote: Put bones in the ground and wait to see what happens, that's what happened to the T-Rex wasn't it. It wasn't set on a self and protected from nature. What I was actually referring to was the preparation of the experiment, the T-Rex didn't have that advantage to preserve his red blood cells, what happens in a lab is man made not a natural process, you may say it mimics the process but mimic doesn't replace the real process in nature.
You're seriously suggesting that the only way to figure out a natural mechanism is to wait 70 million* years? That's like saying if I drop a ball in a vacuum and measure its speed, I'm not "really" conducting scientific experimentation because it's under laboratory conditions. Lab conditions are used to eliminate other variables which might contaminate the result (in that case, atmospheric drag on the falling object), and they don't mean that labs are some magical place where the laws of physics/chemistry which occur in the lab are not the same as the ones outside the lab.
* Edit to Add: I rounded. It's actually 68 million years, which you would have known if you had read the article I posted about Dr. Schweitzer. Your "100 million years" remark was one of the giveaways to me that you had not read it.
A vacuum has to be created in a lab or some place it can be contained and protected, it doesn't naturally occur in nature. I've pulled hundreds of them.
The protection of the lab can and will skew the results of a test when the thing being tested occurred in nature and it's destructive ability. I didn't have to read the article I've seen an over view of it, the 100 million years was a rounded number also.
(May 3, 2016 at 5:40 pm)Godschild Wrote: Tell me why is this process not present in all other T-Rex. Was this one special for some reason?
RS Wrote:The same reason fossilization itself is rare, and so we don't find fossils of every creature that ever lived. There are many and varied conditions at each site. The conditions for this one fossil just happened to be right for that particular natural event to occur. Secondly, it may be more common than we know-- scientists happened to accidentally break this femur, which is why the material was found. They don't make a habit of breaking rare and precious fossils.
With the bone gone and fossilization taken place how is it that those red blood cells could have been protected from what destroyed the hard bone. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying that there's another reason for what happened, do I have the answer no I do not. What I do know is the red blood cells could not have lasted 68 million years. Scientist wouldn't have to break open fossils they could drill holes in them and extract anything if there is anything to extract.
Godschild Wrote:
pid='1265803' dateline='1462311626']The experiment isn't done for another 99 million years and out in nature. I use to do taxidermy and to clean skulls and other bones I wanted to keep I put them in the wood behind me and in two weeks the little critters that are there for cleaning up dead things would completely clean a skull, nothing left, I mean nothing. If I hadn't protected them with a cage the larger critters would have eaten the bones for calcium, nature is destructive for a reason, it's a cleaning and reclaiming process not a preservation process.
RS Wrote:Yep. That's another reason fossils are so rare, compared to the number of creatures that have existed. You're getting it!
And that's why I question the reasoning of what's been discovered.
(May 3, 2016 at 5:40 pm)Godschild Wrote:
You weren't, a Christian is a believer in the Christ and one want ever leave what they know to be so awesome, if you were a Christian you would have had a living relationship with Christ and would never been able to deny Him. This is biblical requirement of being a Christian, so unless you are still a believer and hiding it you were never a Christian. I know I'm a Christian, I would never give up what I know as the truth from the One who promised to reveal it to me. I also noticed you said you thought you were a Christian, I read doubt in that statement, I also noticed you never mentioned having a personal relationship with Christ. What new information could there be when if you were a Christian, Christ would have given you truth that no one could refute, what you are calling "thick headed" about me is the result of the revelation of Christ's truth in my life. So don't be astounded, be curious as to why I have stood strong on this site for six plus years and getting stronger all the time. Christianity hasn't insulated me from learning nor questioning God about certain things, I studied and still do to learn and I question to learn and all the new information I have obtained still strengthen me.
RS Wrote:Nothing you said here is surprising to me, but it does make me sad to see such prejudice expressed so clearly. The fact that you have to call it "doubt" when I tell you I used to think something that I no longer thought is particularly telling.
Try to think of it this way. I dated a woman for many years, and was madly in love with her. I believed she was madly in love with me until I found photos on her computer (she forgot to log out on her way to work, and I saw them when attempting to log her out and shut down the computer) of her having group sex in our bed, while I was out on the road working as a field biologist. With this new information, I realized that she did not reciprocate my love, as I once thought, and in time I came to realize that I was in love with an imaginary figure and not the real woman. What you are essentially doing is telling me that I was never in love with her, simply because I'm not in love with her now.
Whether the story is true or an analogy it doesn't represent a relationship with Christ, not if you truly knew Him. Christ want forsake those who are truly His. This is a simple fact that can't be put any simpler nor can it be put in a more any other way, it's the truth. Man/ woman are not trust worth, we've proven this time and again, to completely rely on them can be a foolish action, yes there are a few who might be completely trust worthy, but very few.
Godschild Wrote:
pid='1265803' dateline='1462311626']My only real challenge to science is that which deny's creation, why, because it's only speculation as to the beginning and many very intelligent Christian scientist have given counter evidence to main stream science and it's rejected and refused to be published to squash anything counter to much of unproven science on the universe. I out right reject evolution because the science behind it is flawed and opinionated and the scientist refuse to consider other ideas and thought's. I listen to the objections to God and His word and have shown many times on this site how wrong atheist have been about scripture verses and ideas, you trust in science, I trust in the Creator who knows the truth.
RS Wrote:Um, nope. There is no such thing as "mainstream science", in the context you're using it. There's performing the Scientific Method, and there's pseudoscience. The people to whom you refer are doing the latter, and many people in the scientific community (many of them Christians, themselves) have stepped forward to explain why that is so... Kenneth Miller and Francis Collins come to mind, offhand. Far from "refusing to consider" the Creationists' claims, they go out of their way to consider and then refute them. You're simply not listening because you prefer the claims of the Creationists, which validate your pre-existing beliefs. The HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Christians who are biologists have no problem with evolution, and see evolution as the mechanism of creation... thus, Creation is an ongoing process, and not something done magically all-at-once, then stopping.
Until you can explain why so many devout Christians are outspoken evolutionary biologists (as I said, since I'm from the deep South, most of the biologists and other scientists I've known in my life, including my mentors and professors, and my co-workers and colleagues, were Christians), you'll have a really hard time convincing anyone that the bias is not entirely yours.
Like coal can be formed in a very short time, proven by Christian scientist, refusal of belief by the scientist who are against short term anything. These scientist know that a short creation time would end their careers and the money for their research. Protecting their lively hood is more important than the truth.
The denial of creation by any Christian is to say God has no sovereignty, that He is a liar and I can't believe anyone would want to be a Christian of such a God, how could one trust Him.
I know scientist also, my previous pastor was a nuclear scientist and his son also, his son is brilliant and both believe in creation as the Bible tells it. I know others that fell the same way, and I doubt that there are hundreds of thousands of Christians evolutionary biologist.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(May 4, 2016 at 1:28 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: There's only one or two parts of you I would eat...
Hopefully not with bbq sauce
More like cream, actually.
Damn, now I'm horngry again.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
(May 3, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Godschild Wrote: Good statement, you just proved the necessity of the Holy Spirit's guidance to understand scripture. Actually though this is a idea that can be understood through just reading, if you cared to ever do that, if not then you should refrain from making false statements about scripture.
GC
I have read the bible from cover to cover. This is how I know that if there were a god, it had nothing to do with the bible and he bible has nothing to do with god. As I have said on countless occasions, if there is any truth at to the bible, it is simply a history of men parading around as gods in an effort to control the populace. I have also read the majority of your posts attempting to twist and contort the contents of the bible to suit your needs. If there were a god, it would be 100000000000+ times better than that warmongering tyrant in that piece of shit you so desperately cling to and defend.
You might have read it but you have never understood it, the Bible is God's word written by inspired men, inspired by the Holy Spirit. All atheist can do is refer to some ancient wars, wars that had a significant meaning to God's plan to redeem mankind. You ignore all the love and caring, peace and help God has given many in the scriptures. I'm not desperately clinging to anything, I grow in the knowledge of God daily, strengthen even by being here.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(May 3, 2016 at 5:42 pm)Godschild Wrote: Then why do most here quote him and support him and his work.
GC
Most quote him? Really? Care to substantiate that claim, or should we toss it on the bonfire with all of the other unsubstantiated claims you routinely make?
Just go and read all the post about him they are everywhere, even threads about him, he's regarded as a god here and you know it, just afraid to admit it.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(May 3, 2016 at 5:42 pm)Godschild Wrote: Then why do most here quote him and support him and his work.
GC
Most? It rather seems to me like some. Only a handfull I would say without naming names. You certainly can't find any post by me quoting Dawkins, since I wouldn't even know what to quote in the first place.
I did say most.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(May 3, 2016 at 5:54 pm)Godschild Wrote: I did not deny I said that, and said I assumed that some here identified as such.
I hope I have explained things to satisfy you.
GC
Are you or are you not admitting that you pulled that claim out of thin air?
I mean, that's kind of what it sounds like, but you couch your words with so much weaselese that one can never be sure.
I said what I said because I believed it to be true from my experiences here for the past 6 years. Call it what you want but what I just said is what I mean.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(May 4, 2016 at 2:59 pm)Godschild Wrote: the 100 million years was a rounded number also.
You simply will not be wrong will you. Ever. Not fucking ever.
(May 3, 2016 at 5:40 pm)Godschild Wrote: What I do know is the red blood cells could not have lasted 68 million years.
Not 'rounding' now?
Godschild Wrote:You weren't, a Christian is a believer in the Christ and one *want* ever leave what they know to be so awesome,
For the love of all things holy and fucked GC it's "won't". As in "will not". You want to understand how to use this word or you simply won't allow any sort of correction process to enter your head? It's a tiny thing GC, you just cannot fucking accept it can you?
(May 3, 2016 at 5:57 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Most quote him? Really? Care to substantiate that claim, or should we toss it on the bonfire with all of the other unsubstantiated claims you routinely make?
Just go and read all the post about him they are everywhere, even threads about him, he's regarded as a god here and you know it, just afraid to admit it.
GC
If they're everywhere, we should be able to see them.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
