TGB, that's the excuse to ignore questions they cannot answer without being hypocritical.

You'll notice that A Theist didn't even attempt to address my question when I directly asked him to, and I even quoted the question again. He just went off on some tangent completely unrelated.

(May 20, 2016 at 10:16 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: TGB, that's the excuse to ignore questions they cannot answer without being hypocritical.

You'll notice that A Theist didn't even attempt to address my question when I directly asked him to, and I even quoted the question again. He just went off on some tangent completely unrelated.

Oh, I know. I just like to rub their nose in their inability to answer.

(May 20, 2016 at 10:48 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(May 20, 2016 at 10:16 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: TGB, that's the excuse to ignore questions they cannot answer without being hypocritical.

You'll notice that A Theist didn't even attempt to address my question when I directly asked him to, and I even quoted the question again. He just went off on some tangent completely unrelated.

Oh, I know. I just like to rub their nose in their inability to answer.

Kindred spirits.

(May 14, 2016 at 8:37 pm)Mathilda Wrote: Trans people are already at real risk due to violence, sexual and physical abuse and suicide. These bathroom laws increase those risks massively.

I have no doubt that this is at least in part the motivation behind some of the "ayes".

(May 19, 2016 at 2:55 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: The point that everyone is making and that you just confirmed is that these laws don't do anything, your 1950s understanding of what transgenderism is notwithstanding.

If you don't understand, not to worry! There are lots of explanations and scientific studies that will explain it for you, and they even have wonderful charts in case the words are too difficult.

Google away!

I believe we're talking about two different things here. You're addressing the NC law. I'm talking about, if Loretta Lynch and Barrack have their way, to get laws passed that allows transgenders and others to use bathrooms of the sex they say they identify with, there'll be nothing to restrain voyeurs or sexual predators from using the public restrooms they want. You say it's happening now and that the NC law won't change anything. You're full of shit. I don't believe it's happening as much now as you claim it is, rarely maybe, but not even close to the scale as you blow it up to be. As things stand now, do you actually think that some mother isn't going to go to an establishment's management and tell them that there's a man leering in the women's bathroom and that the predator or voyeur won't be escorted out by security? Your leftist ideology is blind and naïve. Your thinking's fucked up.

Have you even bothered to do a Google search, yourself, to see if there's any scientific studies that disputes the studies that gays are predetermined to be gay before birth? The so-called gay gene is still eluding any scientific evidence....here's one for you to look at
https://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/no...asons-why/

....

/facepalm

(May 22, 2016 at 9:48 am)Bella Morte Wrote: ....

/facepalm

....

/facepalm, your ass. I'm in a far better position to use that very argument than any of you are.

(May 22, 2016 at 9:31 am)A Theist Wrote:

(May 19, 2016 at 2:55 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: The point that everyone is making and that you just confirmed is that these laws don't do anything, your 1950s understanding of what transgenderism is notwithstanding.

If you don't understand, not to worry! There are lots of explanations and scientific studies that will explain it for you, and they even have wonderful charts in case the words are too difficult.

Google away!

I believe we're talking about two different things here. You're addressing the NC law. I'm talking about, if Loretta Lynch and Barrack have their way, to get laws passed that allows transgenders and others to use bathrooms of the sex they say they identify with, there'll be nothing to restrain voyeurs or sexual predators from using the public restrooms they want. You say it's happening now and that the NC law won't change anything. You're full of shit. I don't believe it's happening as much now as you claim it is, rarely maybe, but not even close to the scale as you blow it up to be. As things stand now, do you actually think that some mother isn't going to go to an establishment's management and tell them that there's a man leering in the women's bathroom and that the predator or voyeur won't be escorted out by security? Your leftist ideology is blind and naïve. Your thinking's fucked up.

Have you even bothered to do a Google search, yourself, to see if there's any scientific studies that disputes the studies that gays are predetermined to be gay before birth? The so-called gay gene is still eluding any scientific evidence....here's one for you to look at
https://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/no...asons-why/

You apparently didn't read the article. The author is claiming that sexuality is more complex than just the genes, and that most people are bisexual but make choices about which "side" to play for, bowing to social pressure and personal preferences... which is essentially what scientists and sociologists/psychologists have been saying since the Kinsey studies. That's why there are six numbers on the Kinsey Scale, not just two or three. [Edit to Add: The "no gay gene" argument is also ignorant as fuck... they think it's epigenetic and developmental, not just a piece of DNA, meaning it has to do with hormone balance in utero and the way it affects the "unpacking" of the DNA code... as such, it's not an A-or-B switch, but a graduated scale of several parts of our brains that control sexuality, identity, and many other functions that contribute to what we call "sexuality". Grow up and realize the world isn't black and white, especially in biology, and we shouldn't expect it to be.]

As for the whole "nothing to restrain voyeurs or predators", you're insane. Anyone (male or female) leering or doing anything else disconcerting in a bathroom can be removed by the management at the request of those being frightened by those actions. Treating trans persons like persons by prohibiting discrimination against them under law doesn't change that, even a little bit.

Your made-up fear that predators will suddenly have a new license to go after women ignores that several states have had such laws on the books for years, now, and have seen no indications whatsoever of problems resulting from that policy change. The same is true for numerous European countries who have already made this step. It also ignores that boys are preyed upon by strangers far more than girls (who tend to be most frequently molested by a family member or friend of the family), and your whole argument of "protect the women and little girls!!" skips over that little detail-- the simple fact is that child molesters are far more concerned with the vulnerability and innocence of the children than they are with the gender, as has been confirmed by numerous studies on the subject. So unless you want to ban all men from the restroom in case some predator dresses up like a normal man and just walks right in to the men's room full of vulnerable little boys, you need to stop pretending that it's really about protecting the vulnerable.

Meanwhile, trans people really are vulnerable, and being attacked and even killed for their differences. Only by denying their humanity and entire identity can you equate respecting them with some license for predators to commit crimes by mimicking them. 

As long as you keep peddling fear-mongering illusions to support/defend your bigotry, we're going to keep calling you out on it. And cut the "leftist ideology" bullshit. If respecting human beings' rights and value (even if they're different from me) makes me a "leftist ideologue", then I consider it a compliment, and pity you that you think it's an insult.

https://www.facebook.com/tiffintheOK/pos...9568201292

Quote:This is me. I’m a cisgender woman (that means born a woman, identify as a woman). I also happen to have wide shoulders thanks to genetics, and have had a hormonal imbalance since puberty that leads to me having more testosterone than the typical woman should have in her system. The latter is what leads to me having excess hair growth, and the bit of a 5 o’clock shadow you see in this picture.

While I am self-conscious of the shadows on my face, and extra hair on parts of my body, I’m also not going to let it rule my life. I know who I am. I know my value.

But I also know people who do not know me, those I come across out there in public, many will assume that I am transgender. I’ve seen the side eyed glances, heard the whispers, that some people make when they see me walk by or are at the next table. I’ve even had trans folk who have made the assumption. That’s what leads me to the point of this post . . .

Over the last couple of months I have been nervous about being out in public and having to go to the bathroom. For the first time, I’m truly worried about what someone might do to me because of their assumptions about me. I can only imagine how much that feeling is multiplied for those who ARE transgender.

I’m not trans, but I am most certainly a STRONG ALLY.

I’m asking you all to join me and flood the Oklahoma Legislators with calls asking them to vote against SCR 43 and SB 1619 or any other bill that may pop up that tries to dictate rules of bathroom usage. Tell them to do their job and pass a budget. Tell them to worry more about maintaining bathrooms in our schools, than who is using those bathrooms. Tell them to stop wasting our time and tax dollars. Tell them to stop using distraction politics. Tell them to stop playing to the bigots and the ignorant. Tell them we do NOT live in a theocracy (as much as they might believe otherwise). Tell them to do the right thing. Tell them whatever is important to you.

Most of all tell them to vote NO on SCR 43 and SB 1619.

(May 22, 2016 at 9:31 am)A Theist Wrote: I believe we're talking about two different things here. You're addressing the NC law. I'm talking about, if Loretta Lynch and Barrack have their way, to get laws passed that allows transgenders and others to use bathrooms of the sex they say they identify with, there'll be nothing to restrain voyeurs or sexual predators from using the public restrooms they want.

In which case America will be like any other country and like how it has always been in the past. You do realise that other countries exist right? Other countries that allow trans-people to use the bathrooms / toilets that they feel most comfortable in and that there is no problem?

It's the American states like NC that are creating the problem by bringing in laws to discriminate and making people's trips to the bathrooms extremely dangerous if they are in any way less than gender conforming. Like cisgendered women with short hair, lesbians, trans people, cisgendered women with hormonal problems. And these new laws do absolutely nothing to solve the problem that they claim to solve. The reasoning for doing so is extremely weak. These new laws won't restrain voyeurs and sexual predatorsfrom using the public restrooms they want.

Obama is just trying to return things back to how they were.