(May 25, 2016 at 11:03 am)robvalue Wrote: I wouldn't put it anywhere since my creation wouldn't need to eat or breathe in order to not die.

You're talking like God has restrictions to work around. Where did these come from?

Indeed.  Our Christian friend might want to reconsider.  Acknowledging that God has restrictions to work around is kind of like taking the red pill.  That hole may lead to a world where illusions fall away.  You really want to become a disgusting heathen like us?  The blue pill might be your better choice.  Up to you.

(May 25, 2016 at 10:31 am)AAA Wrote: Where would you put the esophagus then?

Nose to lungs, mouth to stomach. No problem. One would think a god could have come up with that answer. I suppose now you take issue with speech. That could be worked out also, after all, god can do anything and yet all we have is poor, but adequate, design.

(May 25, 2016 at 11:03 am)robvalue Wrote: I wouldn't put it anywhere since my creation wouldn't need to eat or breathe in order to not die.

You're talking like God has restrictions to work around. Where did these come from?

QFT!

(May 25, 2016 at 10:16 am)AAA Wrote:

(May 24, 2016 at 7:15 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Dilemma fail.

I'm not saying the design isn't perfect - I design things for a living and I'm full aware that in design "perfect" is the enemy of "good enough".

What I'm saying is that if there is a designer *the designer is incompetent*.

So why is the designer incompetent? Because there are flaws? If so, then you are an incompetent designer also. I think I'm missing your point.

Not because there are flaws but because there are flaws that a competent designer would catch before implementation.

You do know there are animals on this planet with completely separate breathing and eating pipes, right?

(May 25, 2016 at 11:56 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(May 25, 2016 at 11:03 am)robvalue Wrote: I wouldn't put it anywhere since my creation wouldn't need to eat or breathe in order to not die.

You're talking like God has restrictions to work around. Where did these come from?

QFT!

QFT?

(May 25, 2016 at 10:46 am)Gemini Wrote:

(May 25, 2016 at 10:31 am)AAA Wrote: Where would you put the esophagus then? I bet that wherever you want to put it would lead to more problems than it would solve. Just be thankful that someone managed to have an epiglottis back when the interface first evolved, or else every single member of the species would have choked to death.

It's not obvious that problems would arise from separating the respiratory system from the digestive system.

Whales and dolphins seem to manage just fine.

Quoted for truth.

(May 25, 2016 at 10:16 am)AAA Wrote:

(May 24, 2016 at 7:15 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Dilemma fail.

I'm not saying the design isn't perfect - I design things for a living and I'm full aware that in design "perfect" is the enemy of "good enough".

What I'm saying is that if there is a designer *the designer is incompetent*.

So why is the designer incompetent? Because there are flaws? If so, then you are an incompetent designer also. I think I'm missing your point.

It's not that there are flaws, it's that *if* there's a designer, the design contains fatal design flaws that could easily be forseen - even by an imperfect human being. Yet, we're to believe that the human form is a design product of an all-powerful, all-knowing deity. You'd have us believe that your almighty is capable of producing such a deeply flawed design?

Bullshit.

If you can't see the problem, you're willfully blind to it. I don't expect you to agree, but to deny it exists is something entirely different.

(May 25, 2016 at 10:26 am)AAA Wrote:

(May 24, 2016 at 7:25 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I guess.

This guy I'm talking to, if you take his line to its logical conclusion, would hold his creator to a lower standard of competency than I would hold one of my junior engineers to.  The tracheal/esophageal interface isn't just not perfect - it's *shit*.

I ask again, where would a professional designer such as yourself put the esophagus?

That's odd, that's the first time you've asked me this that I'm aware of.

It's not the placement. It's the interface with the trachea. The hole that sustenance (including liquids) goes down the same hole as mammals breathe through, leading to the very real possibility of asphyxiation from something as mundane as eating or drinking.

Is your almighty constrained from having separate orifices for eating/drinking and respiration? What other constraints do you want to assign to the almighty?

Another way to say it is that the 'design' that we see in living things shows evidence of their having been formed differently in the past. Adaptions organisms make in transforming over time show design compromises based on expedience. The giraffes crazy long nerve wouldn't have been designed like that if not for having evolved from an animal without an extremely long neck. It is evidence of evolution.

AAA, are you arguing that evolution wasn't reflected in the organisms we find today? Or are you just saying it is all God's plan/design ultimately? If you agree that organisms have the capacity to evolve over time, I have no trouble with agreeing that, yeah, that's pretty cool how animals change to better fit their environment. But does that require any designer? If no designer is involved in the actual choices, why assume a designer had to design organisms to evolve sans and input from a designer?