I've tried to find a reason that would make believing worth it, and I just can't. Any potential reason I have encountered feels like I'm lying to myself or like forced yet false happiness. The more I realized this, the more comfortable with the unknown I've become.

(May 28, 2016 at 6:45 am)Thena323 Wrote:

(May 27, 2016 at 9:18 am)Drich Wrote:

---

That is where I differ from calvinism as well in that one can indeed reject the call to salvation.

---

That said i do not believe we can loose our salvation. However I do not believe we are 'saved' at the moment we typically think. Saved as outlined in scripture always points to a comming event. "you will be saved.." ect.  

Yep:
Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Quote: I believe salvation comes at the verdict of your judgement. Once you are saved (from judgement onward) you can never loose your salvation.

Romans 10:10 (KJV) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation is only the means  by which one is saved, IMO; Easily lost or forfeited.
That was my take, anyway.

Green: quote from Dripshit, in case it's unclear.
Hey Dripshit!  Jesus (supposedly) said:

Matthew 12:31-32 
 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

So Jeebus Crisp in the KJV is the authority, apparently.  Well good.  Because I was baptized, saved and sanctified, re-baptized, and all of that bullshit.  But YAY!!  Ju-HEEZ-us gives me an out.  So here we go: the HOLY SPIRIT does not and has never existed.  It was made up by men.  But JUST IN CASE I still have believer stain in me somewhere, the HOLY SPIRIT is an impotent, incompetent, and idiotic pile of shit!!!!   There.  My salvation should be sufficiently erased.  Whew.  Dodged a bullet, might have gotten sent to the non-existent heaven or hell after I kick the bucket.

I don't believe because "belief is a graveyard".

(May 30, 2016 at 7:45 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(May 28, 2016 at 6:45 am)Thena323 Wrote: Yep:
Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Romans 10:10 (KJV) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation is only the means  by which one is saved, IMO; Easily lost or forfeited.
That was my take, anyway.

Green: quote from Dripshit, in case it's unclear.
Hey Dripshit!  Jesus (supposedly) said:

Matthew 12:31-32 
 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

So Jeebus Crisp in the KJV is the authority, apparently.  Well good.  Because I was baptized, saved and sanctified, re-baptized, and all of that bullshit.  But YAY!!  Ju-HEEZ-us gives me an out.  So here we go: the HOLY SPIRIT does not and has never existed.  It was made up by men.  But JUST IN CASE I still have believer stain in me somewhere, the HOLY SPIRIT is an impotent, incompetent, and idiotic pile of shit!!!!   There.  My salvation should be sufficiently erased.  Whew.  Dodged a bullet, might have gotten sent to the non-existent heaven or hell after I kick the bucket.

Oh, my glob...

"From the point of the final judgement..." That was a condition or qualifier I used to validate my statement. If you understood this point your whole post should have been about What or rather WHEN is your final judgement?

Again. the word 'saved' here is the scriptural context points to a future event. Meaning If you can read this, your opportunity for salvation has not occurred yet. Read Romans 10:9 again (really any passage about salvation) "Thou Shalt BE Saved." Or You Will Be Saved) Not You are saved.

Do you see it yet? Salvation does not happen upon confession. Salvation happens upon final judgement. As in You will literally be saved from the flames of Hell At your judgement! Not your actions or acceptance of some mantra, cermony or chant saves you at the point you say it or get pushed under water. Rather your salvation will happen at a future date. It is to that Salvation that one can NEVER loose his salvation from.

Again this is another example of how you failed in your understanding of God. Appearently your version of God saves you when you say a little chant or go through some ritual, and it was your understanding that from that some believed no one could loose their salvation. Where you failed was in your understanding of biblical salvation itself. Salvation does not happen in this life it happens in the next one. At least according to scripture/The God of the bible.

So my question is, if you do not understand the basics of salvation how then do you see yourself in a position to correct anyone? Why not ask a question if you are unsure, rather than persume to teach from a religion you yourself has verified as being empty of a deity it claims to worship?

(May 27, 2016 at 12:54 pm)quip Wrote:

(May 27, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Same type of experience, different source.

It's the difference between a battery powered device and a solar powered one.

All emotional states are dependent upon circumstance. 

One can't have perpetual joy without necessary, interceding sorrow...sorrow is what gives joy its flavor, they're both necessarily integrative and transient.

I beg to differ. Love is the chief of all emotion. If you love say, your child with all that you are, is there anything that child can do, or this world can do to him change that love? This emotion is independent of circumstance.

If for you the answer is yes, know that the majority of humanity would answer with a no.

You again are describing Happiness. Happiness is indeed dependent on circumstance. But, Joy like love has nothing to do with circumstance, as It is a gift from God. one that God fuels and provides for those through the Holy Spirit.. Joy is a 'fruit' or one of the evidences of the Holy Spirit.

(May 28, 2016 at 6:45 am)Thena323 Wrote:

(May 27, 2016 at 9:18 am)Drich Wrote: That is where I differ from calvinism as well in that one can indeed reject the call to salvation.

That said i do not believe we can loose our salvation. However I do not believe we are 'saved' at the moment we typically think. Saved as outlined in scripture always points to a comming event. "you will be saved.." ect.  

Yep:
Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Quote: I believe salvation comes at the verdict of your judgement. Once you are saved (from judgement onward) you can never loose your salvation.

Romans 10:10 (KJV) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation is only the means  by which one is saved, IMO; Easily lost or forfeited.
That was my take, anyway.

Then put it back.. (your take away) Into context. (see above)

(June 1, 2016 at 11:51 am)Drich Wrote:

(May 27, 2016 at 12:54 pm)quip Wrote: All emotional states are dependent upon circumstance. 

One can't have perpetual joy without necessary, interceding sorrow...sorrow is what gives joy its flavor, they're both necessarily integrative and transient.

I beg to differ. Love is the chief of all emotion. If you love say, your child with all that you are, is there anything that child can do, or this world can do to him change that love? This emotion is independent of circumstance.

If for you the answer is yes, know that the majority of humanity would answer with a no.

You again are describing Happiness. Happiness is indeed dependent on circumstance. But, Joy like love has nothing to do with circumstance, as It is a gift from God. one that God fuels and provides for those through the Holy Spirit.. Joy is a 'fruit' or one of the evidences of the Holy Spirit.

Absolute, total and utter nonsense.

That's all.

(May 29, 2016 at 9:06 am)Organic Machine Wrote: I've tried to find a reason that would make believing worth it, and I just can't. Any potential reason I have encountered feels like I'm lying to myself or like forced yet false happiness. The more I realized this, the more comfortable with the unknown I've become.

So it is your opinion that your one effort, represents a 'complete' effort, that if by your works YOU could not contact God that their can't be a God?

Because after all... If God Truly 'loves you' He would chase after you with magic tricks and granted wishes to secure your 'love' in return.

(June 1, 2016 at 11:58 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote:

(June 1, 2016 at 11:51 am)Drich Wrote: I beg to differ. Love is the chief of all emotion. If you love say, your child with all that you are, is there anything that child can do, or this world can do to him change that love? This emotion is independent of circumstance.

If for you the answer is yes, know that the majority of humanity would answer with a no.

You again are describing Happiness. Happiness is indeed dependent on circumstance. But, Joy like love has nothing to do with circumstance, as It is a gift from God. one that God fuels and provides for those through the Holy Spirit.. Joy is a 'fruit' or one of the evidences of the Holy Spirit.

Absolute, total and utter nonsense.

That's all.

how is love not influenced by circumstance non sense?

(June 1, 2016 at 11:44 am)Drich Wrote:

(May 30, 2016 at 7:45 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Green: quote from Dripshit, in case it's unclear.
Hey Dripshit!  Jesus (supposedly) said:

Matthew 12:31-32 
 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

So Jeebus Crisp in the KJV is the authority, apparently.  Well good.  Because I was baptized, saved and sanctified, re-baptized, and all of that bullshit.  But YAY!!  Ju-HEEZ-us gives me an out.  So here we go: the HOLY SPIRIT does not and has never existed.  It was made up by men.  But JUST IN CASE I still have believer stain in me somewhere, the HOLY SPIRIT is an impotent, incompetent, and idiotic pile of shit!!!!   There.  My salvation should be sufficiently erased.  Whew.  Dodged a bullet, might have gotten sent to the non-existent heaven or hell after I kick the bucket.

Oh, my glob...

"From the point of the final judgement..." That was a condition or qualifier I used to validate my statement. If you understood this point your whole post should have been about What or rather WHEN is your final judgement?

Again. the word 'saved' here is the scriptural context points to a future event. Meaning If you can read this, your opportunity for salvation has not occurred yet. Read Romans 10:9 again (really any passage about salvation) "Thou Shalt BE Saved." Or You Will Be Saved) Not You are saved.

Do you see it yet? Salvation does not happen upon confession. Salvation happens upon final judgement. As in You will literally be saved from the flames of Hell At your judgement! Not your actions or acceptance of some mantra, cermony or chant saves you at the point you say it or get pushed under water. Rather your salvation will happen at a future date. It is to that Salvation that one can NEVER loose his salvation from.

Again this is another example of how you failed in your understanding of God. Appearently your version of God saves you when you say a little chant or go through some ritual, and it was your understanding that from that some believed no one could loose their salvation. Where you failed was in your understanding of biblical salvation itself. Salvation does not happen in this life it happens in the next one. At least according to scripture/The God of the bible.

So my question is, if you do not understand the basics of salvation how then do you see yourself in a position to correct anyone? Why not ask a question if you are unsure, rather than persume to teach from a religion you yourself has verified as being empty of a deity it claims to worship?

Yep, here ya go.  In funditard rules, "whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." is absolutely literal, from the mouth of Jeebus himself, until you don't want it to be.  Then you can explain it anyway you want.  Its quite mind-boggling, how all of these preachers disagree with what Jesus meant, and they all trash the other preachers who don't agree with their ideas about what Jesus meant.  It's too bad Jesus doesn't exist to clear up all this mess.
     Well, if your little incompetent imaginary monster's "judgment" ever happens, I'll just have to cuss out Caspar again.