Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.

[robvalue]

[Drich]

Oh, my glob...

"From the point of the final judgement..." That was a condition or qualifier I used to validate my statement. If you understood this point your whole post should have been about What or rather WHEN is your final judgement?

Again. the word 'saved' here is the scriptural context points to a future event. Meaning If you can read this, your opportunity for salvation has not occurred yet. Read Romans 10:9 again (really any passage about salvation) "Thou Shalt BE Saved." Or You Will Be Saved) Not You are saved.

Do you see it yet? Salvation does not happen upon confession. Salvation happens upon final judgement. As in You will literally be saved from the flames of Hell At your judgement! Not your actions or acceptance of some mantra, cermony or chant saves you at the point you say it or get pushed under water. Rather your salvation will happen at a future date. It is to that Salvation that one can NEVER loose his salvation from.

Again this is another example of how you failed in your understanding of God. Appearently your version of God saves you when you say a little chant or go through some ritual, and it was your understanding that from that some believed no one could loose their salvation. Where you failed was in your understanding of biblical salvation itself. Salvation does not happen in this life it happens in the next one. At least according to scripture/The God of the bible.

So my question is, if you do not understand the basics of salvation how then do you see yourself in a position to correct anyone? Why not ask a question if you are unsure, rather than persume to teach from a religion you yourself has verified as being empty of a deity it claims to worship?

Yep, here ya go.  In funditard rules, "whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." is absolutely literal, from the mouth of Jeebus himself, until you don't want it to be.  Then you can explain it anyway you want.  Its quite mind-boggling, how all of these preachers disagree with what Jesus meant, and they all trash the other preachers who don't agree with their ideas about what Jesus meant.  It's too bad Jesus doesn't exist to clear up all this mess.
     Well, if your little incompetent imaginary monster's "judgment" ever happens, I'll just have to cuss out Caspar again.  

I'm going to try again since you did not seem to read the last post I made or you did not understand the implications of what I said.

 What you don't understand is this: Salvation is not something we do. It is not some thing we say nor is it a ceremony. Meaning we are not saved in this life by anything we can do, meaning we can not ever rightfully claim the title 'saved.' That is an award Jesus alone can give. That means any and everything we do in this life is being judged against the fact of whether or not we have atonement for out sins. Which will be determined in the next life.
Meaning,
IF your not saved till your final judgement then one can say once saved always saved, AND STILL say those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven.

How??? The honest atheist asks? (who is reading what I have written) Simple : Once saved means Once you've been accepted into Heaven (AFTER YOUR FINAL JUDGEMENT) You can't do something that either can't be forgiven or you can't do something unforgivable.
which in of it self Means,
IF You can now blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you are not in a state of salvation (You have not been 'saved' yet.)

Do you get it now?

Salvation when ever identified by the bible ALWAYS points forward to a future time. The only time where salvation or being saved becomes a 'past tense' event is in the future, after the resurrection and final judgement in Revelation.

Which means, No one to this point in Human History has been 'saved' yet, and it can still mean that Those who are to be saved can never loose their salvation. Up to that point, we only claim to be followers of Christ. We can only accept the gift of atonement. It does not mean we can live in this life and rightfully claim the title 'saved.'

[Drich]

*Inhales deeply
Ah... Generic non specific memes... The sweet smell of intellectual defeat.

The only think better is a 20 min ad hom youtube rant.. Got one of those up your sleeve too?

[drfuzzy]

---

Yep, here ya go.  In funditard rules, "whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." is absolutely literal, from the mouth of Jeebus himself, until you don't want it to be.  Then you can explain it anyway you want.  Its quite mind-boggling, how all of these preachers disagree with what Jesus meant, and they all trash the other preachers who don't agree with their ideas about what Jesus meant.  It's too bad Jesus doesn't exist to clear up all this mess.
     Well, if your little incompetent imaginary monster's "judgment" ever happens, I'll just have to cuss out Caspar again.  

---

I'm going to try again since you did not seem to read the last post I made or you did not understand the implications of what I said.

---

 What you don't understand is this: Salvation is not something we do. It is not some thing we say nor is it a ceremony. Meaning we are not saved in this life by anything we can do, meaning we can not ever rightfully claim the title 'saved.' That is an award Jesus alone can give. That means any and everything we do in this life is being judged against the fact of whether or not we have atonement for out sins. Which will be determined in the next life.
Meaning,
IF your not saved till your final judgement then one can say once saved always saved, AND STILL say those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven.

How??? The honest atheist asks? (who is reading what I have written) Simple : Once saved means Once you've been accepted into Heaven (AFTER YOUR FINAL JUDGEMENT) You can't do something that either can't be forgiven or you can't do something unforgivable.
which in of it self Means,
IF You can now blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you are not in a state of salvation (You have not been 'saved' yet.)

Do you get it now?

Salvation when ever identified by the bible ALWAYS points forward to a future time. The only time where salvation or being saved becomes a 'past tense' event is in the future, after the resurrection and final judgement in Revelation.

Which means, No one to this point in Human History has been 'saved' yet, and it can still mean that Those who are to be saved can never loose their salvation. Up to that point, we only claim to be followers of Christ. We can only accept the gift of atonement. It does not mean we can live in this life and rightfully claim the title 'saved.'

---

I read that post and this one, Dripshit.  It's all the usual bullshit.  God doesn't exist, Jesus doesn't exist, heaven and hell don't exist, salvation doesn't exist, the wholly babble is a hideous badly-written collection of evil and fairy tales, and until someone can PROVE that any of that crap does exist I don't need to waste any more time on it.

[quip]

All emotional states are dependent upon circumstance. 

One can't have perpetual joy without necessary, interceding sorrow...sorrow is what gives joy its flavor, they're both necessarily integrative and transient.

I beg to differ. Love is the chief of all emotion. If you love say, your child with all that you are, is there anything that child can do, or this world can do to him change that love? This emotion is independent of circumstance.

If for you the answer is yes, know that the majority of humanity would answer with a no.

You again are describing Happiness. Happiness is indeed dependent on circumstance. But, Joy like love has nothing to do with circumstance, as It is a gift from God. one that God fuels and provides for those through the Holy Spirit.. Joy is a 'fruit' or one of the evidences of the Holy Spirit.

Likewise, love is transient.   You suffer with an understanding of the inevitability of lost love..through the knowledge of death or potential abandonment of such love.  Love is a great emotion....just don't cling irrationally to it.

[Athene]

Yep:
Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Romans 10:10 (KJV) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation is only the means  by which one is saved, IMO; Easily lost or forfeited.
That was my take, anyway.

Then put it back.. (your take away) Into context. (see above)

We're talking about two different things here. 

The words 'salvation' and 'saved' aren't always interchangeable, Drich. Salvation also has it's own stand-alone definition that makes more sense within a Biblical context as the way, means, path or process in which to be saved; Not the actual act of being saved itself.

"Salvation" occurs as a result of accepting the atonement of Christ.

By accepting Christ's atonement, one is (generally) regarded as worthy of being in God's presence, and thus "saved" from permanent separation from Him in the end.

Unless there's some reason to believe that your God would just start evicting individuals out of heaven, once they've already been accepted into his kingdom after final judgement, then sure; Once saved, always saved makes sense. But, if one no longer possesses the faith or belief required to accept atonement, then the way in is clearly gone; Salvation go bye-bye.

Anyhow, this specific line of discussion seems to involve little more than quibbling over semantics, in my opinion.

[Drich]

I beg to differ. Love is the chief of all emotion. If you love say, your child with all that you are, is there anything that child can do, or this world can do to him change that love? This emotion is independent of circumstance.

If for you the answer is yes, know that the majority of humanity would answer with a no.

You again are describing Happiness. Happiness is indeed dependent on circumstance. But, Joy like love has nothing to do with circumstance, as It is a gift from God. one that God fuels and provides for those through the Holy Spirit.. Joy is a 'fruit' or one of the evidences of the Holy Spirit.

Likewise, love is transient.   You suffer with an understanding of the inevitability of lost love..through the knowledge of death or potential abandonment of such love.  Love is a great emotion....just don't cling irrationally to it.

An emotion NOT based on circumstance. (Which is my point that counters your statement)

Therefore is it not possible for another emotion to NOT be based on circumstance?

[Drich]

Then put it back.. (your take away) Into context. (see above)

We're talking about two different things here. 

The words 'salvation' and 'saved' aren't always interchangeable, Drich. Salvation also has it's own stand-alone definition that makes more sense within a Biblical context as the way, means, path or process in which to be saved; Not the actual act of being saved itself.

"Salvation" occurs as a result of accepting the atonement of Christ.

By accepting Christ's atonement, one is (generally) regarded as worthy of being in God's presence, and thus "saved" from permanent separation from Him in the end.

Unless there's some reason to believe that your God would just start evicting individuals out of heaven, once they've already been accepted into his kingdom after final judgement, then sure; Once saved, always saved makes sense. But, if one no longer possesses the faith or belief required to accept atonement, then the way in is clearly gone; Salvation go bye-bye.

Anyhow, this specific line of discussion seems to involve little more than quibbling over semantics, in my opinion.

Your right to a degree, Salvation is indeed a process through which we are saved, but it has nothing to do with us nor our works good or bad. Salvation was a work of Christ, and it is upto Christ alone to determine whether or not we are saved. That officially does not happen till our judgement.

If you look at the bible we can only accept the salvation offered, no where in scripture does it say we are saved at that moment. Now I'm not saying certain sects do not teach this, I know they do and i came out of one of them. But never the less it is not a biblical principle.

That is why What Christ says in Mat 7 about the final day "21 “Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter God’s kingdom. The only people who will enter are those who do what my Father in heaven wants. 22 On that last Day many will call me Lord. They will say, ‘Lord, Lord, by the power of your name we spoke for God. And by your name we forced out demons and did many miracles.’ 23 Then I will tell those people clearly, ‘Get away from me, you people who do wrong. I never knew you.’

Look at the list of things these people who cry out "lord, lord" do. These acts are greater than anything people in the church can now do. This is Apostle level acts. So from a religious stand point these 'doers of wrong' are kings among the religious. So clearly in their minds they are "Saved." Can you read the shock in their words? look at how the parade their 'works' infront of Christ. Obviously these acts qualified them as 'christian' before other men, but they have no hold on Christ. How is that possible if as the bible says (Heb 6) Point blank we can not loose our salvation, now couple that with the parable of the types of soil Jesus taught, then it becomes more clear that 'salvation/being saved' is not something that we do or even happens in this life, because in the parable of the soils it is not till the harvest (which is described as the final resurrection and judgement) that the 'good fertile soil' is identified because it yielded a fruitful crop. Meaning we don't know who is saved till it is all said and done.

Again, nothing in the bible tells us we are saved the moment we accept Jesus Christ as our savior, that is a religious teaching and one more difference between the God of the bible, and the god you created that you tested and found to be false.

Outside of that I do believe we are going to the same place without arguments. that is the sum total of our life will be evaluated and can be found wanting despite any proclamations, ceremonies or traditional observance we may partake in. God is not a fool nor will He be duped into yielding to a loop hole (death bed confession type of thing) you may have think you found.

Because again only Christ can Save us, offer us salvation, Or even identify us as Christians. It has nothing to do with what we think of our selves.

[Drich]

I'm going to try again since you did not seem to read the last post I made or you did not understand the implications of what I said.

---

 What you don't understand is this: Salvation is not something we do. It is not some thing we say nor is it a ceremony. Meaning we are not saved in this life by anything we can do, meaning we can not ever rightfully claim the title 'saved.' That is an award Jesus alone can give. That means any and everything we do in this life is being judged against the fact of whether or not we have atonement for out sins. Which will be determined in the next life.
Meaning,
IF your not saved till your final judgement then one can say once saved always saved, AND STILL say those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven.

How??? The honest atheist asks? (who is reading what I have written) Simple : Once saved means Once you've been accepted into Heaven (AFTER YOUR FINAL JUDGEMENT) You can't do something that either can't be forgiven or you can't do something unforgivable.
which in of it self Means,
IF You can now blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you are not in a state of salvation (You have not been 'saved' yet.)

Do you get it now?

Salvation when ever identified by the bible ALWAYS points forward to a future time. The only time where salvation or being saved becomes a 'past tense' event is in the future, after the resurrection and final judgement in Revelation.

Which means, No one to this point in Human History has been 'saved' yet, and it can still mean that Those who are to be saved can never loose their salvation. Up to that point, we only claim to be followers of Christ. We can only accept the gift of atonement. It does not mean we can live in this life and rightfully claim the title 'saved.'

---

I read that post and this one, Dripshit.  It's all the usual bullshit.  God doesn't exist, Jesus doesn't exist, heaven and hell don't exist, salvation doesn't exist, the wholly babble is a hideous badly-written collection of evil and fairy tales, and until someone can PROVE that any of that crap does exist I don't need to waste any more time on it.

ah... So the light flickers and FINALLY goes on.

So then, if God does not exist, then why oh, why spend so much time arguing the finer points of salvation, just to loose and default to a generic if all else fails 'god does not exist' argument?

The point of this teeth kicking and victory lap is to have you ask a question rather than try and 'correct' a point you do not fully comprehend.

[LadyForCamus]

*Inhales deeply
Ah... Generic non specific memes... The sweet smell of intellectual defeat.

The only think better is a 20 min ad hom youtube rant.. Got one of those up your sleeve too?

The only "think" better?  Nice job making a typo while putting someone else down for making 
a typo, dripshit.  Lol