Obviously, God is testing them. Or, if they don't accept Jesus as their lord & savior, it's a punishment from God.

(April 19, 2011 at 6:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I was fishing?!

Pfft ...I don't know. God made nature right and nature is good with bad - stuff eats stuff.... things die, things thrive... all together I see it as awe inspiring. Gods creation I equate with nature. See that spore that attaches to ants and grows a mushroom out of them? Loads of truly horrific things in nature.

What I don't see is a supposed fairy tale dream of endless happiness as being good. I'm more than happy with this reality, and I think we all have to accept this is what we have. With our creature comforts all we seem to have gained is another process by which we destroy ourselves.

Did that make sense?

Thought not... :S

[PS I've just been reading Saerules' Bio - my mind may have been affected!]

I don't know ... kind of ... maybe not. It sounds like you may have some Deist views such as myself - which is somewhat confusing to me since you have a christian label on you. And most (not all) people of that persuasion believe that their god is always in control ... which of course is the point of my whole thread. Correct me if I missunderstood your reply, but it would seem that you do not feel that you god was in control of those people with the face tumors. Is that correct?

For the record, I don't believe God is in control of that mess either. And if I'm wrong, and he is, than I'm signing up for hell just to spite him, cause that would be some sadistic shit right there!

I believe that God created this reality and acts in it. Reality is what it is, warts and all. Like the non Xtian realist, I take life as it is. Unlike the non Xtian realist... I read it all as being the way God intended it.

The bible sets out the precept that physical ailment can also be related to spiritual ill health. It also states that spiritual health elevates a person above their physical needs (manna from heaven replaces bread).

The Xtian God is different from other Gods of his time in the ancient world. People are the Xtian Gods' representatives on earth. People serve gods in other religions... they aren't images of him. So to think of God as distant judge punishing his play things isn't the Xtian model. He isn't punishing you for the lulz... you are punishing yourself if you choose to live against the laws of nature. He has you in his love ray beam and you erect the anti ray cloak.

Shit happens. It happens indiscriminately. God chooses to shit equally upon the righteous and the unrighteous. The plan might not suit us, but then we're not privy to the goal.

We accept life in nature as some sadistic shit going down in part, but that being what makes the wheels turn. You can choose to look at nature as oppressive or constructive. I choose to look at it as constructive.

(April 20, 2011 at 2:42 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Shit happens. It happens indiscriminately. God chooses to shit equally upon the righteous and the unrighteous. The plan might not suit us, but then we're not privy to the goal.

We accept life in nature as some sadistic shit going down in part, but that being what makes the wheels turn. You can choose to look at nature as oppressive or constructive. I choose to look at it as constructive.

i fail to see what is constructive about giving people these horrendous diseases.

like i've said before, if you truly believe that your god is capable of this then that is not a god i want to be believing in.

So if you believe that then Nap you also believe that life is pretty shit and hopeless?

---

The point is CC that we appreciate the beauty of the big picture. Death is part of that picture. I don't need a fantasy to make that acceptable. You seem to want that??

(April 20, 2011 at 11:42 am)Napoleon666 Wrote:

(April 20, 2011 at 2:42 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Shit happens. It happens indiscriminately. God chooses to shit equally upon the righteous and the unrighteous. The plan might not suit us, but then we're not privy to the goal.

We accept life in nature as some sadistic shit going down in part, but that being what makes the wheels turn. You can choose to look at nature as oppressive or constructive. I choose to look at it as constructive.

i fail to see what is constructive about giving people these horrendous diseases.

like i've said before, if you truly believe that your god is capable of this then that is not a god i want to be believing in.

I'd have to agree with Nap here. Whats the point of believing in a god that indiscriminately shits on some and treats others with benevolent goodness????

Quote:The plan might not suit us, but then we're not privy to the goal.

I've heard this one before in regards to MANY issues, and yeah, it's still a HUGE copout. -- "We can't pretend to know gods amazing plan because we're just mortals."



How anyone believes this nonsense is beyond me.

(April 20, 2011 at 2:16 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: So if you believe that then Nap you also believe that life is pretty shit and hopeless?

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YOU NAILED IT!

doesnt stop me from doing what i can to enjoy my life though.

and yeah, cinjincain was right, ur using that 'we dont know god's plan' bullshit. what a cop out.

(April 20, 2011 at 2:16 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: So if you believe that then Nap you also believe that life is pretty shit and hopeless?

---

The point is CC that we appreciate the beauty of the big picture. Death is part of that picture. I don't need a fantasy to make that acceptable. You seem to want that??

Look frodo, you may be a very reasonably guy - I don't know you, but I'm sure you'll understand the rational logic behind what I'm saying - which is: If you believe that your god knows you personally, loves you, and looks after you - than you, by proxy, must believe that he cares for everyone this way. Thus, it becomes impossible for a person of your beliefs to explain why your god allows certain people (like these poor bastards) to suffer in torment for an entire lifetime.

...unless of course you consider one of these two factors:
#1 These are not your beliefs and you don't believe that you have a personal relationship with god - as nearly all christians claim to have.
#2 These people, not being born into the Christian faith were cursed by god as they were being conceived.


Basically, the only answer a Christian can have to this and still maintain that they have a personal relationship with god is this: "Yes, my god is allowing them to experience a lifetime of suffering."

This is the kind of thing that is pretty convincing evidence that either

A) There is no god

or

B) God doesn't give a shit about humans.

I also have the same reaction when I see video from a group home for autistic adults, a mental hospital or a cancer ward for children.

(April 20, 2011 at 3:23 pm)Thor Wrote: This is the kind of thing that is pretty convincing evidence that either

A) There is no god

or

B) God doesn't give a shit about humans.

I also have the same reaction when I see video from a group home for autistic adults, a mental hospital or a cancer ward for children.

damn right. how people can say that god has a plan is beyond me. what fucking plan could you possibly have which needs to put people in such suffering? i'd rather people say that if they do believe in god then to admit that he's some kind of fucked up experimentist who's using us as lab rats.