(June 11, 2016 at 6:52 pm)robvalue Wrote: That's your interpretation steve. You don't get to speak for all Christians.

I would have expected such a reply from me but....oh wait...carry on

(June 11, 2016 at 6:52 pm)robvalue Wrote: That's your interpretation Steve. You don't get to speak for all Christians.

He seems to be making a go of it, seeing as he's taking up contradictory positions.

(June 11, 2016 at 6:52 pm)robvalue Wrote: That's your interpretation Steve. You don't get to speak for all Christians.

No, that is not my interpretation. That is mainstream protestant AND catholic doctrine.

(June 11, 2016 at 6:49 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(June 11, 2016 at 6:26 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Neither Luther nor Calvin agree with you, according to the following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_s...eformation

For those that don't feel like clicking on the link, they both claim/affirm that we inherit Adam's sin at birth, and it's only being born again - both through the act of baptism and the acceptance of the holy spirit - that we have a chance for redemption.

So, yeah....

You are still confusing inheriting a sin nature with what you are going to be punished for. 

To be more precise you have to understand the before and after. Before Adam's sin he was righteous and could stand before God (in his presence) "as-is" blameless, without fault, a perfect being, made in the image of God, higher than the angels. After sin, approaching God is no longer possible--he was tainted. The fall was significant because of how high his status was to start. Adam could not help but pass on that tainted state to his offspring. Therefore we inherit a sin nature--a state that requires some kind of repair if we are to get back to the original state.

So, if someone who inherits a sin nature never actually commits a sin, what then?  What's the penalty for not getting the state-of-being repaired?

(June 11, 2016 at 7:01 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(June 11, 2016 at 6:52 pm)robvalue Wrote: That's your interpretation Steve. You don't get to speak for all Christians.

No, that is not my interpretation. That is mainstream protestant AND catholic doctrine.

Even if that were the case, it's still not all Christians.

It is an interpretation, one you happen to agree with. But you don't get to speak for all Christians.

Even if Protestant is by definition a Christian who isn't Catholic, that doesn't mean that a non-Catholic Christian is forced to accept poplar Protestant dogma. It's a false dichotomy.

Any Christian, or group of Christians, can believe and teach whatever they want, regardless of how you label them.

(June 11, 2016 at 7:01 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(June 11, 2016 at 6:52 pm)robvalue Wrote: That's your interpretation Steve. You don't get to speak for all Christians.

No, that is not my interpretation. That is mainstream protestant AND catholic doctrine.

Do you ever know what the fuck you are talking about?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/ar...s2c1p7.htm

Quote:The consequences of Adam's sin for humanity
402 All men are implicated in Adam's sin, as St. Paul affirms: "By one man's disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners": "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned."289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. "Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."290
403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam's sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the "death of the soul".291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.

It seemeth not.

(June 11, 2016 at 7:02 pm)KevinM1 Wrote:

(June 11, 2016 at 6:49 pm)SteveII Wrote: You are still confusing inheriting a sin nature with what you are going to be punished for. 

To be more precise you have to understand the before and after. Before Adam's sin he was righteous and could stand before God (in his presence) "as-is" blameless, without fault, a perfect being, made in the image of God, higher than the angels. After sin, approaching God is no longer possible--he was tainted. The fall was significant because of how high his status was to start. Adam could not help but pass on that tainted state to his offspring. Therefore we inherit a sin nature--a state that requires some kind of repair if we are to get back to the original state.

So, if someone who inherits a sin nature never actually commits a sin, what then?  What's the penalty for not getting the state-of-being repaired?

Is it possible that someone never commits a sin? Most mainline protestant doctrine of sin holds that a child will not be judged for their sins (covered by grace) until they reach the age of accountability. That is the time (difference for everyone) at which they can comprehend their sin and become accountable for their response to God. Cognitively impaired people would also fall into this category. Now the question is whether a person, who has reached the age of accountability, could have led a sinless life up to that point. I don't think that is a possibility (I have 5 children and know it was not true for them), the Bible teaches that it is not possible, and I don't think there is any evidence that is the case.

(June 11, 2016 at 7:07 pm)robvalue Wrote:

(June 11, 2016 at 7:01 pm)SteveII Wrote: No, that is not my interpretation. That is mainstream protestant AND catholic doctrine.

Even if that were the case, it's still not all Christians.

It is an interpretation, one you happen to agree with. But you don't get to speak for all Christians.

Wouldn't want to. Just trying to correct when I see gross simplifications or misunderstandings of concepts that aren't fully understood.

(June 11, 2016 at 7:28 pm)SteveII Wrote: ...we inherit a sin nature--a state that requires some kind of repair if we are to get back to the original state.

...Is it possible that someone never commits a sin? ...the Bible teaches that it is not possible, and I don't think there is any evidence that is the case.

In so many words, you just agreed with what everyone has been telling you. With what the title of this thread says.