(June 19, 2016 at 9:17 am)madog Wrote: I listened to him as he was a Muslim ... He isn't the only ex Muslim I have listened too, but I prefer their take than those making assumptions from the outside ... Many ex-Muslims are feeling betrayed by Western Liberals, I don't intend to be one of the betrayers ....

And as many feel betrayed by applying the broad brush. I stick to judge the individual, since I've seen it all. Ranging from raving radical to normal human being. From any religion. I won't apply blanket statements just because they believe. And that goes for every religion. As well as atheists, for that matter. There are just as many who have nothing in common with me, other than not believing.

I certainly don't judge anyone by their scripture. Be it the bible, the Quran or Harris. And you will never find me doing that on here.

(June 19, 2016 at 9:39 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 19, 2016 at 9:17 am)madog Wrote: I listened to him as he was a Muslim ... He isn't the only ex Muslim I have listened too, but I prefer their take than those making assumptions from the outside ... Many ex-Muslims are feeling betrayed by Western Liberals, I don't intend to be one of the betrayers ....

And as many feel betrayed by applying the broad brush. I stick to judge the individual, since I've seen it all. Ranging from raving radical to normal human being. From any religion. I won't apply blanket statements just because they believe. And that goes for every religion. As well as atheists, for that matter. There are just as many who have nothing in common with me, other than not believing.

I certainly don't judge anyone by their scripture. Be it the bible, the Quran or Harris. And you will never find me doing that on here.

So you won't criticize a religion that denies women/gay/etc/etc rights ? We are not talking ranges here, it is virtually across the board ....

(June 19, 2016 at 10:24 am)madog Wrote: So you won't criticize a religion that denies women/gay/etc/etc rights ? We are not talking ranges here, it is virtually across the board ....

Have you read the bible recently? No better no worse.

Mind that I said, I don't judge scripture. I judge people and what they make of it. And they come in all flavors, regardless of what they claim to believe. I always found the scripture threads on here to be fundamentally stupid, since hardly anyone really subscribes to scripture. And the ones doing it, out themselves to be the real radicals.

(June 19, 2016 at 10:29 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 19, 2016 at 10:24 am)madog Wrote: So you won't criticize a religion that denies women/gay/etc/etc rights ? We are not talking ranges here, it is virtually across the board ....

Have you read the bible recently? No better no worse.

Mind that I said, I don't judge scripture. I judge people and what they make of it. And they come in all flavors, regardless of what they claim to believe. I always found the scripture threads on here to be fundamentally stupid, since hardly anyone really subscribes to scripture. And the ones doing it, out themselves to be the real radicals.

I think the bible is shit and I will criticize the religions based on it vehemently .... 

But I don't see why Islam is off the table .... those Muslims that agree issues like homophobia/etc/etc are wrong will and do welcome this part of the religion being challenged, they certainly can't or find it very difficult to do it themselves from within their community .... So that leaves liberals.

Unfortunately Liberals don't support the minorities trapped within Islam as they do for other Religions and by doing so they support that theocracy 

(June 19, 2016 at 11:01 am)madog Wrote: But I don't see why Islam is off the table .... those Muslims that agree issues like homophobia/etc/etc are wrong will and do welcome this part of the religion being challenged, they certainly can't or find it very difficult to do it themselves from within their community .... So that leaves liberals.

And that's what you don't understand. It's not off the table. It's just on the same lines as christianity. I refrain from judging any muslim just for being muslim. In the same way as I don't judge any christian or jew for being religious. Show me your colors and I tell you what I think of you. But not based on one of the old books.

I have my fair share of contempt for any radical, and as I said, I also have it for certain atheists. I just prefer to look at the person first and not at what they claim to subscribe to. Ideologists of any kind won't get a pass from me.

(June 19, 2016 at 11:07 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 19, 2016 at 11:01 am)madog Wrote: But I don't see why Islam is off the table .... those Muslims that agree issues like homophobia/etc/etc are wrong will and do welcome this part of the religion being challenged, they certainly can't or find it very difficult to do it themselves from within their community .... So that leaves liberals.

And that's what you don't understand. It's not off the table. 
 

It is to many pseudo Liberals who are even attacking ex-Muslims for criticizing Islam  .... The world is going mad ...

And ....?

Btw, you might want to look at this chart. American muslims are more likely to be in favor of gay marriage than evangelical christians.



http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/13/in-ame...kely-to-su

(June 19, 2016 at 11:11 am)abaris Wrote: And ....?

Btw, you might want to look at this chart. American muslims are more likely to be in favor of gay marriage than evangelical christians.

 

http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/13/in-ame...kely-to-su

And I criticize Christians 99.% of the time ... which I am ashamed of ... But anyone talking about Islam is attacked lately .... 

(June 19, 2016 at 11:27 am)madog Wrote: And I criticize Christians 99.% of the time ... which I am ashamed of ... But anyone talking about Islam is attacked lately .... 

So why aren't you ashamed of criticizing Islam for the same reasons? It's equally stupid or valid. The followers of any religion don't deserve criticism in the first place, only for being followers.

I don't attack CL, Kingpin or Atlas here, because they don't give me reason to. I value them, which doesn't mean, I'm in agreement with what they believe. And I don't hold back against Wyrd, stoner or scoob, just because they happen to be atheists.

(June 19, 2016 at 11:31 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 19, 2016 at 11:27 am)madog Wrote: And I criticize Christians 99.% of the time ... which I am ashamed of ... But anyone talking about Islam is attacked lately .... 

So why aren't you ashamed of criticizing Islam for the same reasons? 

I am ashamed because I am so one sided, but that is down to my lack of knowledge of the Qur'an .... You should take a little time and listen to ex Muslims and the problems they get in their own community and the death threats and lack of support from Liberals .....

I don't want to give any theocracy a pass on bad doctrine ...