(June 21, 2016 at 5:28 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: Questions any sensible person would ask himself after an NDE

1. Why would god give me a glimpse of eternity when millions of others are allowed to go to hell  with no knowledge at all
2. What is it about this experience that calls me to take any particular action?
3. If this is god, which god?
4. What about this vision speaks to my own deep fears?
5. What about this god excuses him for all the misery humans experience on Earth?

Rondha.  

Your fantasy has no limits.
1) Who told you that people go to hell beside religious people that do not represent God?

2) How many God you reckon there are?
Maybe one God create the space, one the air, one the light, one the water and one the matter?
Oh, yeah.  

3) Oh, is it really God that create all the misery?
How did you work that out?

Get real dreamer.
You got the free will to create misery for yourself and for other.
At the same time you also got the free will to prosper and progress so stop blaming God
for everything.  

(June 22, 2016 at 8:22 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 8:06 am)robvalue Wrote: Didn't answer my question yet.

How many theists have to change to atheists through NDE before you become an atheist?

NDEs lead to God so there is no way that that will ever happen.

If you have any doubt about that go and see many of the NDEs experiences in this web site.

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/...counts.htm

Your question is the most stupid I ever heard.
It is like to say........how many people that are heading to London end up in Liverpool?
If you head to London you end up in London not Liverpool.  

No it's a very simple question, and you can't answer it. You could just say one would be enough, if you consider it impossible.

You expect us to change our beliefs on the basis of anecdotes, but you blatantly won't do the same. So you're a hypocrite.

You assume near death experiences can only lead to the conclusion you already hold. Or rather, you'll interpret any experience anyone has as fitting your conclusion. You're completely closed minded. NDE does not equal "meeting God". It's just an unusual experience.

Some people heading to London might get lost and end up in Liverpool. Or maybe they all get there just fine.

(June 22, 2016 at 8:26 am)Gemini Wrote:

(June 21, 2016 at 12:39 am)KevinM1 Wrote: The doctors used to use ketamine on me as a surgical anaesthetic back in the late 80s/early 90s.  Pre-teen me tripped balls on that shit.  I mean, dreams of my mom operating on me, giant 3D letters whizzing by my head, a castle on a floating rock in the middle of a storm cloud... Stuff that I still remember because it was so vivid, with sounds and smells and tactile sensations as well as the visuals.

One hypothesis to explain NDEs is that is that the brain has a defense mechanism against exitotoxicity from excess glutamate, such as is released in response to oxygen deficiency. Blockading the NMDA receptor protects neurons, but also causes dissociation. This is exactly what ketamine does, and there are a number of similarities between ketamine-induced experiences and NDEs. 

What we know is that a person doesn't have to be clinically dead or even in a life threatening situation to have a NDE--Howard Storm is an example. Also, young children who have NDEs often report seeing fictional characters like Santa Claus up in heaven. 

So I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be convinced even if I myself had a NDE. Skeptics have these kinds of experiences all the time and aren't swayed--A. J. Ayer is an example (there's plenty more examples in William James's "The Varieties of Religious Experience").

That doesn't explain why so many of these NDE people can see what happen inside the hospital while dead.
They lie down in the emergency room totally zombied out with nothing working in their body-brain and yet they can see what happen inside other rooms and once back to life describe what they saw which was
verified by staff members.

Sorry Gemini your guess is just a guess which is contradicted by the real experiences.  

(June 22, 2016 at 8:35 am)robvalue Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 8:22 am)Little Rik Wrote: NDEs lead to God so there is no way that that will ever happen.

If you have any doubt about that go and see many of the NDEs experiences in this web site.

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/...counts.htm

Your question is the most stupid I ever heard.
It is like to say........how many people that are heading to London end up in Liverpool?
If you head to London you end up in London not Liverpool.  

No it's a very simple question, and you can't answer it. You could just say one would be enough, if you consider it impossible.

You expect us to change our beliefs on the basis of anecdotes, but you blatantly won't do the same. So you're a hypocrite.

You assume near death experiences can only lead to the conclusion you already hold. Or rather, you'll interpret any experience anyone has as fitting your conclusion. You're completely closed minded. NDE does not equal "meeting God". It's just an unusual experience.

Some people heading to London might get lost and end up in Liverpool. Or maybe they all get there just fine.

Wrong again Roberto.  

1) First of all I do not expect you guys change your mind.
My poll as the title say was all about being curious to know which has absolutely nothing to do with make you change your mind.

2) I do not assume.
I read these experiences and they all lead to the same conclusion that God exist.
That go hand in hand with my personal experiences as a yoga practicing that God exist so when
all conclusion lead to the same entity why should I doubt?  

(June 22, 2016 at 8:50 am)Little Rik Wrote: That doesn't explain why so many of these NDE people can see what happen inside the hospital while dead.
They lie down in the emergency room totally zombied out with nothing working in their body-brain and yet they can see what happen inside other rooms and once back to life describe what they saw which was
verified by staff members.

Sorry Gemini your guess is just a guess which is contradicted by the real experiences.  

There is absolutely no objective evidence that they actually perceive anything that would confirm out-of-body experience vs. just dreaming/hallucinating.

(June 22, 2016 at 8:22 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 8:06 am)robvalue Wrote: Didn't answer my question yet.

How many theists have to change to atheists through NDE before you become an atheist?

NDEs lead to God so there is no way that that will ever happen.

If you have any doubt about that go and see many of the NDEs experiences in this web site.

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/...counts.htm

Your question is the most stupid I ever heard.
It is like to say........how many people that are heading to London end up in Liverpool?
If you head to London you end up in London not Liverpool.  

So are you dodging the question because you don't understand how to answer hypothetical questions, or because you've actually realized that having to answer your own hypothetical question completely defeats your argument?

There are lots of people who have NDEs and who don't see visions. They either experience nothingness, or they lose the time altogether. This is probably more common, in fact, and yet you're willing to ignore all the times that happens to focus on the fistful of stories that support what you already believe because people saw things you can't explain. That is the very heart of ignorance, and it makes you an ignorant person.

(June 22, 2016 at 9:04 am)Gemini Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 8:50 am)Little Rik Wrote: That doesn't explain why so many of these NDE people can see what happen inside the hospital while dead.
They lie down in the emergency room totally zombied out with nothing working in their body-brain and yet they can see what happen inside other rooms and once back to life describe what they saw which was
verified by staff members.

Sorry Gemini your guess is just a guess which is contradicted by the real experiences.  

There is absolutely no objective evidence that they actually perceive anything that would confirm out-of-body experience vs. just dreaming/hallucinating.

Wrong again Gemini.

To understand NDEs you should also put yourself in God shoes so to speak but you can't because you start from the idea that God doesn't exist.
Suppose that God exist for a moment.
As God your intention is to teach something only to those who are ready to learn.
Why would you teach to someone who is not ready?
It wouldn't make sense that is why only some of the people who had an NDE experience God.

God is not there to show himself to those who don't care about him.
Not only that but he-she (God has no sex) is also not engaging in games or give evidences that he exist such as to show to skeptics tricks when an NDE can see things put there by skeptics as experiments.

(June 22, 2016 at 9:27 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 9:04 am)Gemini Wrote: There is absolutely no objective evidence that they actually perceive anything that would confirm out-of-body experience vs. just dreaming/hallucinating.

Wrong again Gemini.

To understand NDEs you should also put yourself in God shoes so to speak but you can't because you start from the idea that God doesn't exist.
Suppose that God exist for a moment.
As God your intention is to teach something only to those who are ready to learn.
Why would you teach to someone who is not ready?
It wouldn't make sense that is why only some of the people who had an NDE experience God.

God is not there to show himself to those who don't care about him.
Not only that but he-she (God has no sex) is also not engaging in games or give evidences that he exist such as to show to skeptics tricks when an NDE can see things put there by skeptics as experiments.  

You just said that I was wrong that there is no objective evidence that NDEs support an afterlife, and then explained why we shouldn't expect to find objective evidence for this. Do you realize this?

(June 22, 2016 at 7:54 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(June 21, 2016 at 8:12 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: The operating system on this computer is abstract.  It's also realized in the physical fact of the electrons flowing through its various circuits.  That something appears abstract to you is not evidence that it is non-physical.  And your assertion is far from obvious.

Wrong again yog.  

Abstract is the mind that build the computer or the car or any other thing.
The computer is as physical as your body that wouldn't move unless YOU
decide so.  

You're just asserting that the mind is abstract. What evidence besides NDEs do you have that the mind is intangible?

(June 22, 2016 at 9:27 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 9:04 am)Gemini Wrote: There is absolutely no objective evidence that they actually perceive anything that would confirm out-of-body experience vs. just dreaming/hallucinating.

Wrong again Gemini.

To understand NDEs you should also put yourself in God shoes so to speak but you can't because you start from the idea that God doesn't exist.
Suppose that God exist for a moment.
As God your intention is to teach something only to those who are ready to learn.
Why would you teach to someone who is not ready?
It wouldn't make sense that is why only some of the people who had an NDE experience God.

God is not there to show himself to those who don't care about him.
Not only that but he-she (God has no sex) is also not engaging in games or give evidences that he exist such as to show to skeptics tricks when an NDE can see things put there by skeptics as experiments.  

This is nothing but a bunch of fictitious claptrap. Suppose God exist. Suppose Peter Pan can fly. Suppose Santa is real.
Gemini said there is no objective evidence and you haven't provided any. All you've got is a 'what if'.
Stories about how God must be aren't evidence of anything. All you've got is the bare claim that she is wrong.
And that doesn't amount to spit.

(June 22, 2016 at 9:24 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 8:22 am)Little Rik Wrote: NDEs lead to God so there is no way that that will ever happen.

If you have any doubt about that go and see many of the NDEs experiences in this web site.

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/...counts.htm

Your question is the most stupid I ever heard.
It is like to say........how many people that are heading to London end up in Liverpool?
If you head to London you end up in London not Liverpool.  

Quote:So are you dodging the question because you don't understand how to answer hypothetical questions, or because you've actually realized that having to answer your own hypothetical question completely defeats your argument?

Pinky.  

I know that God exist because the more I practice yoga the more I feel God within so I wouldn't
be convinced that God does not exist.
On top of that the real NDEs experiences confirm that God exist.
So far nobody ever produce solid evidence that God doesn't exist.
Theists can become atheists and atheists can become theists.
There are millions of theists that just believe in God because their religion say so but actually
they are not practicing a method that lead to God so their word would mean absolutely nothing to me.
If however they say that they have been in the other dimension and nothing is there then I wouldn't believe them.
Why should I when I feel God within?

Quote:There are lots of people who have NDEs and who don't see visions. They either experience nothingness, or they lose the time altogether. This is probably more common, in fact, and yet you're willing to ignore all the times that happens to focus on the fistful of stories that support what you already believe because people saw things you can't explain. That is the very heart of ignorance, and it makes you an ignorant person.

In the previous post I already explained why only some people experience God.
Read it.