ANCIENT IRISH SHIPYARD DISCOVERED



Boru

(June 19, 2016 at 5:26 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: ANCIENT IRISH SHIPYARD DISCOVERED

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Boru

That's no Irish shipyard. Those ships aren't made of lead.

The Currach seems to have retained its essential construction from antiquity through the middle ages.  Animal hides stretched over a wooden frame.  They apparently put out onto the seas surrounding Ireland in them... which is a pretty gutsy thing to do.

(June 22, 2016 at 5:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The Currach seems to have retained its essential construction from antiquity through the middle ages.  Animal hides stretched over a wooden frame.  They apparently put out onto the seas surrounding Ireland in them... which is a pretty gutsy thing to do.

Well you know what they say, "when you've a bit of the black stuff in you, you'll do anything".

Hey, the Egyptians put to sea in reed boats.


One does wonder what the casualty rate was.

(June 19, 2016 at 1:44 pm)Minimalist Wrote: They took care of their ships.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonia...pic&no-ist

Quote:Archaeologists Uncover Massive Naval Bases of the Ancient Athenians
Researchers have excavated ship sheds in the city of Piraeus that held triremes from the pivotal Battle of Salamis

They had to take care of their ships because their ships were extremely highly lacking in seaworthiness, endurance, robustness, were consequently absurdly high maintenance, and yet vital to their position in the world.

(June 19, 2016 at 3:34 pm)abaris Wrote:

(June 19, 2016 at 3:28 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Here you go, Abs.  While you are on your tour of ancient ports you can stop in at Cape Misenum.

https://pompeiitourguide.me/2013/10/21/miseno-cape/

Quote:I was always impressed by how modern they were. Until cinvilization took a huge step in the wrong direction. Makes you wonder where we would be by now, if Rome hadn't been vanquished.

Was Rome really headed towards modernity, or did Rome acquired certain isolated resemblance to modernity for reasons completely different from any General progress towards modernity?

In most ways, late antiquity Rome was no more modern than china of the same era. China did not fall, and yet did not attain modernity on her own in the subsequent 1600 years. Why would Rome have?

No jesus?

(June 22, 2016 at 8:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote: No jesus?

No Jesus is not enough. The decisive turn towards scientific revolution and modernity occurred in the western world because of the series of contingent events between the 12th and 17th centuries. It did not flow as any inevitable or natural consequence of any attribute of Rome or Greece.

If Rome didn't fall then, it would most likely fall later. At the very least, it would degenerate into an sclerotic empire that continues to produce small innovations, but makes no move towards real intellectual or economic foundations of modernity, rather like dynastic China.

(June 22, 2016 at 8:47 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 8:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote: No jesus?

No Jesus is not enough. The decisive turn towards scientific revolution and modernity occurred in the western world because of the series of contingent events between the 12th and 17th centuries.  It did not flow as any inevitable or natural consequence of any attribute of Rome or Greece.

If Rome didn't fall then, it would most likely fall later.  At the very least, it would degenerate into an sclerotic empire that continues to produce small innovations, but makes no move towards real intellectual or economic foundations of modernity, rather like dynastic China.

You're probably right on this. For example, Rome has access to both innovations necessary for railroads (both the rails themselves and the steam engines) plus the extensive mining metworks and deep mines themselves that were such an impetus when the steam engine revolution eventually happened. It is not just having the opportunity that leads to such innovations but also having the kind of mindset to be able to see and exploit those opportunities.

And with respect to the technical innovations which created the modern world it wasn't until the high renaissance when this mindset first manifested and not until the Enlightenment did it get really going. And it took massive changes away from Roman modes of thinking and institutions to get there.