(June 22, 2016 at 5:03 pm)paulpablo Wrote: And I did answer your question.

No, you evaded. You didn't say anything about what you think about your own capabilities. You only came up with boom, you're dead. Fine, as I said, but in one of these arm everyone discussions I would really love to hear some people having at least a try at being honest with themselves.

(June 22, 2016 at 5:06 pm)abaris Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 5:03 pm)paulpablo Wrote: And I did answer your question.

No, you evaded. You didn't say anything about what you think about your own capabilities. You only came up with boom, you're dead. Fine, as I said, but in one of these arm everyone discussions I would really love to hear some people having at least a try at being honest with themselves.

I said before there's too many variables to consider and it would be a dice throw as to how I would react.

I have a history of remaining quite cool under threats of intimidation so my capabilities in that department are quite high.

Bare in mind that I've never claimed that my personal capabilities with guns or situations like this are highly efficient.

(June 22, 2016 at 5:22 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Bare in mind that I've never claimed that my personal capabilities with guns or situations like this are highly efficient.

Which is all that matters. There's a book I read. Called "On killing", written by an US army shrink. It was recommended to me when I asked for some material on how people deal with taking another's life. He really did his reasearch and, among other incidents, came up with soldiers from the civil war. They were killed in action but when they examined their guns, they noticed they had loaded over and over without firing a single shot. The barrels were virtually full to the brim with bullets. This was the time of front loaders, of course, but they underwent combat training nonetheless. Even they panicked, but resorted to their training without really making use of it. They just kept loading without firing.

As I said, I can relate. Not in being targetted, but in your body and mind developing a life of it's own when feeling threatened. So, going by that experience, I'm very careful in what I think about anyone's capabilities when being in a chaotic life and death situation.

(June 22, 2016 at 5:32 pm)abaris Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 5:22 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Bare in mind that I've never claimed that my personal capabilities with guns or situations like this are highly efficient.

Which is all that matters. There's a book I read. Called "On killing", written by an US army shrink. It was recommended to me when I asked for some material on how people deal with taking another's life. He really did his reasearch and, among other incidents, came up with soldiers from the civil war. They were killed in action but when they examined their guns, they noticed they had loaded over and over without firing a single shot. The barrels were virtually full to the brim with bullets. This was the time of front loaders, of course, but they underwent combat training nonetheless. Even they panicked, but resorted to their training without really making use of it. They just kept loading without firing.

As I said, I can relate. Not in being targetted, but in your body and mind developing a life of it's own when feeling threatened. So, going by that experience, I'm very careful in what I think about anyone's capabilities when being in a chaotic life and death situation.

Ok but all I was commenting on was statistics being used in a dishonest way, your posts at least to me look as if your replying to me in a way that I was initially making claims that I could take out terrorists if I was there and armed which has nothing to do with what I was saying.

(June 22, 2016 at 8:44 am)vorlon13 Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 7:48 am)Little lunch Wrote: It must be horrible to live in a country where you could get shot easily.

I think bad drivers are more dangerous. I haven't been shot at in years, I almost went into the median barrier recently trying to avoid 2 dueling lane hoppers.

Yeah, we got bad drivers here too. I agree they're more dangerous.
But I'm not talking about the actual danger, I'm talking about the possibility.
How it must play on your mind. Like it does with your murderer policemen.

I'm friendly with the local constabulary.

Has something to do with the uniforms and manly accoutrements I think . . . .

(June 22, 2016 at 5:32 pm)abaris Wrote: So, going by that experience, I'm very careful in what I think about anyone's capabilities when being in a chaotic life and death situation.

I've never been in combat, but as a former Air Force firefighter, I think I have something to add to this discussion.

The point Abs made about training is absolutely vital. When all Hell is breaking loose around you, you need a mental cleat so that you can get traction in your thoughts and actions. When they told me I was going to be a fireman, I thought to myself, "I'm running into that burning building while everyone else is running out? Kiss my ass." But after training, exposure to the threat, and even learning to love that feeling of risk, a high you can't mimic with drugs or love, I was happy to walk into anything as long as I had a wet hose. I was King Shit of Turd Mountain, trained to the Nth degree, honed to a fine edge. (I'm a bit older now; I choose my battles rather than charge headlong ).

But at the same time, in both myself and others, I noticed a funny thing -- courage. Most folks think of courage as an unvarying quality in a person -- "He's brave", or "He's a coward" -- but the truth is not that simple. On some days, a guy is brave ... he's having a good day, happy walking into the station, wifey gave him some good loving the night before. On other days, the same sonofabitch ain't worth a pisshole drilled in a snowbank ... maybe he had a near-miss auto accident on the way to work, or skipped dinner the night before and is jittery.

My point being, courage varies inside each person on a day-to-day basis. A hero one day might be a coward the next.

So talking about what you might or might not do in a situation like an active-shooter scenario is really bullshit. The most anyone can really say is, "I hope I do the right thing".

We can address the ugly mechanics of a crossfire in a crowded club featuring shooters impaired by alcohol later. Simply inside a person, when the shit hits the fan, it's pretty hard to tell who will stand up and who will fold, in my experience.

(June 22, 2016 at 8:44 am)vorlon13 Wrote:

(June 22, 2016 at 7:48 am)Little lunch Wrote: It must be horrible to live in a country where you could get shot easily.

I think bad drivers are more dangerous. I haven't been shot at in years, I almost went into the median barrier recently trying to avoid 2 dueling lane hoppers.

Yeah, but cars don't generally target children or gay people.

Your idea is dangerous-- that relative danger is a good excuse to persist in dangerous activities.  It doesn't matter if cars kill 1000x more people than guns.  What matters is that guns aren't really needed, and that removing them from society will result in a net saving of lives.

Brian37 Wrote:

Mister Agenda Wrote:You know, the NRA is an example of an organization that can be beaten by joining it. It's board of directors is elected, and they elect the NRA president. With a membership that probably does not exceed 5 million, I think the NRA is vulnerable to having its positions moderated by a large number of new members who advocate for change. I bet just 50,000 could get at least one board member sympathetic to them in.

Since the NRA was much less extreme when I was a boy (mainly a firearm safety organization), the theme could be 'Make the NRA Great Again'.

Just a notion.

Are you nuts? They don't even listen to a majority of there members. If it still was what it started out as sure, but it is way beyond any salvage now. No, it needs to go extinct. People buy into them out of  gullibility because of their fear marketing. There is no saving a rabid raccoon.

They listen to the members that are the most outspoken, pretty much like any social group. That's how they wound up where they are in the first place, isn't it? A minority of loudmouths changed the organization.

I don't think I'm nuts, but I suppose I wouldn't, would I? The answer to making the organization extinct must be too obvious for the mentally impaired to comprehend, could you elaborate on your plan to accomplish that, which I have no doubt at all is extremely realistic?

More guns always make things better.