(June 25, 2016 at 9:31 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Um, what is the EU? What did we Brits just do?

Which is a bit sad but hardly surprising. Simply put, the EU is whatever it's member states want it to be. EU decisions are made by the sum of national politicians, sometimes majority votes, sometimes in need of unanimous votes.

The need for googling something as simple as that only shows the total fail of national politicians communicating with their populations.

(June 25, 2016 at 9:04 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 9:00 am)Emjay Wrote: Well, I'll never wish the BNPers well or other such extreme right-wing hate-everything parties, and they make up a sizable proportion of the leave vote, but I have no idea how much. What I do know is that Napo is not like that. And I'm hoping Bella too, but less sure on that unfortunately, but benefit of the doubt.

It's my personal family history that doesn't allow for cutting nationalists and right wingers any slack. I may make an exemption for Bella, since she belongs to the LGBT community and will notice at some point in time that she just voted against her own best interests by at least indirectly supporting her sworn enemies.

But there's a reason why I have a very small extended family. And that reason has it's root in the last uprising of right wing messiah figures. We're not there yet, but nationalism and xenophobia are usually only the first steps.

Yeah, believe me I understand. I know what slippery slope we're on and it really scares me. I hate nationalism and I know - and you know - what it can lead to. And I'm probably gonna take a hit for saying this but this whole thing makes me think of how Hitler came to power... populism and hate-mongering in amongst a depression. And if Bella is part of the LGBT community, as I am, then I hope she does realise that right wing is indeed our sworn enemy, and that - in my opinion anyway - the EU has a moderating influence, keeping bigotry and Christian influence at bay in British politics.

(June 25, 2016 at 9:25 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 9:21 am)LastPoet Wrote: Wait what? Since when belonging to the LGBT community gives one some slack? Is that a thing? Assholes exist in all walks of life and I miss Saerules. At least she put up up a real fight, unlike some others.

What I wanted to say is, she's young, obviously very into LGBT rights, and will have a chance to realize her mistake. Which I'm pretty sure, she will at some point in time.

Simply belonging to the LGBT community isn't any excuse, if that wasn't clear.

I speak for myself that when one is young or even at my age, to err is what sometimes we do. And I will also say that pride pauses thinking about it, to safeguard a sense of dignity. Alas, I get it, admitting a mistake creates fear of people using the "you erred once you err everytime". I know better, as ample oportunity to stand my ground on a subject is a given way for someone to use that as a rethoric against a position. Bottom line is that young people have taught me a couple of times and my pride has never given me pause in accepting carefull reasoning and admitting my wrongs.

Shit happens and in this matter I will use the old cliche: I hope to be proven wrong. Then I will stand up and admit it.

To paraphrase the professor: I have doubts and uncertainty, I prefer to live in doubt than to be sure of anything. It does't bother me.

I can only hope this serves as a cautionary tale for the US election in November.

 Emjay said ..... "And if Bella is part of the LGBT community, as I am"


The ECHR has championed LBGT and every other minorities wrongly differentiated against by laws, rules of Public authorities and national Courts and numerous other discriminations in the 47 member States of the Council of Europe since the 1950's.

As I have pointed out the ECHR can not bring a case against the EU because the EU failed accession which goes back to 1974 after France, the final EU member state that ratified the ECHR ....

The EU is growing and has and may well include eastern European nations, Turkey, and who knows the nations the future may bring ...

The UK is very liberal, whatever people try to make out, but even if they violate a minorities human rights they have the ECHR .... But the EU has or will have some member states that are unlikely to be any where near as liberal as the UK .... They will be voting on issues that can Direct the UK to violate the ECHR .... and as I said the EU can not be ruled on by the ECHR ...

I have provided an example for the above, although the principle I tried to point out was not taken seriously ...

(June 25, 2016 at 9:16 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Is there going to be a riot? Do Brits riot? I think there should be a riot.

Yeah, Brits sometimes riot. I remember some severe ugliness not that long ago. I can't remember what it was about, but it was very messed up.

(June 25, 2016 at 9:19 am)Allanon Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 9:02 am)robvalue Wrote: I've finally finished unfriending anyone who disagrees with me. Wow! This is exhausting.

I can't have a civilised debate with such people.

I sincerely hope that's a joke.... I used to be able to tell, but now i'm not so sure.

Yes, it was a joke I have a very deadpan sense of humour.

I'm not upset at anyone specifically who voted differently to me. I'm upset at the situation.

Quote:Yeah, Brits sometimes riot. I remember some severe ugliness not that long ago. I can't remember what it was about, but it was severely messed up.

It was 2011 and it was an escalation of the Mark Duggan shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots

(June 25, 2016 at 3:18 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(June 24, 2016 at 5:15 pm)Bella Morte Wrote: Normally that would be my reaction, but abaris really isn't worth getting angry over.

He's a smart sonofabitch, and I say that as someone who has sometimes disagreed with him.

I strongly disagree with him on a lot of issues by the looks of things, particularly this one but he's still not worth getting angry over.

(June 25, 2016 at 10:24 am)Allanon Wrote:

Quote:Yeah, Brits sometimes riot. I remember some severe ugliness not that long ago. I can't remember what it was about, but it was severely messed up.

It was 2011 and it was an escalation of the Mark Duggan shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots

Ah okay thanks, that was probably it.

I seem to remember a load of shops that had nothing to do with anything being smashed up for no good reason.

(June 25, 2016 at 10:17 am)madog Wrote:  Emjay said ..... "And if Bella is part of the LGBT community, as I am"


The ECHR has championed LBGT and every other minorities wrongly differentiated against by laws, rules of Public authorities and national Courts and numerous other discriminations in the 47 member States of the Council of Europe since the 1950's.

As I have pointed out the ECHR can not bring a case against the EU because the EU failed accession which goes back to 1974 after France, the final EU member state that ratified the ECHR ....

The EU is growing and has and may well include eastern European nations, Turkey, and who knows the nations the future may bring ...

The UK is very liberal, whatever people try to make out, but even if they violate a minorities human rights they have the ECHR .... But the EU has or will have some member states that are unlikely to be any where near as liberal as the UK .... They will be voting on issues that can Direct the UK to violate the ECHR .... and as I said the EU can not be ruled on by the ECHR ...

I have provided an example for the above, although the principle I tried to point out was not taken seriously ...

In addition to the above ... Consider the list below and then consider whether a minority especially LGBT community should be happy to put their Human Rights in the hands of all the list below?

And then note the EU Commission lump unpopular directives in with desired directives to get unpopular directives passed ...

Then Consider those Directives are free from ECHR  Judgement ....

Are we being so unreasonable?

 
Member countries of the EU (year of entry)

The European Union has 28 member countries:

Austria (1995)
Belgium (1958)
Bulgaria (2007)
Croatia (2013)
Cyprus (2004)
Czech Republic (2004)
Denmark (1973)
Estonia (2004)
Finland (1995)
France (1958)
Germany (1958)
Greece (1981)
Hungary (2004)
Ireland (1973)
Italy (1958)
Latvia (2004)
Lithuania (2004)
Luxembourg (1958)
Malta (2004)
Netherlands (1958)
Poland (2004)
Portugal (1986)
Romania (2007)
Slovakia (2004)
Slovenia (2004)
Spain (1986)
Sweden (1995)
United Kingdom (1973)

On the road to EU membership

Candidate countries
Albania
Montenegro
Serbia
The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
Turkey

Potential candidates

Bosnia and Herzegovina
Kosovo *