(June 25, 2016 at 11:20 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 11:15 am)Allanon Wrote: All it takes is a quick search on Google... (nb, I couldn't care less about immigration, I'm just posting facts).

You know, I take that quote from the US ambassador to the UN in 1962, when the Cuba crisis was boiling. "Until hell freezes over". Turkey, as it is now, and as it will be in the upcoming decades, even when Erdogan is removed, stands as much chance of joining. It takes a unanimous vote to start the process, and that won't happen in my lifetime, if there isn't any radical change.

It would do you some good to actually look up all the different countries and factions opposing Turkey joining. Apart from the fact that they don't comply in any way, shape or form with the scripted values and freedoms of the EU.

so they are just a sink hole for Pre-Accession Assistance (IPA)?

http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/instrume...dex_en.htm

Quote:EU allocations for IPA 2014-2020: €4,453.9 million

(June 25, 2016 at 10:59 am)Allanon Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 10:50 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: We have angered our main market and even made it in their interest too apply punitive measures. "You don't want to leave" they will say to other nations "look at what happened to England"  we are totally screwed with no hope of ever emerging. The "ridiculous legislations" were mainly in the minds of the writers of the Daily Mail anyway. What legislation there was protected us from the worst excesses of the tories. We are without this protection now so the tories can inflict on us whatever evil they want. We are exposed, weaker and dragging the world down with us.

Our main market?

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/O..._Data.aspx

Quote:Non-EU Exports for April 2016 were £13.0 billion.
EU Exports for April 2016 were £12.0 billion.

Non-EU Imports for April 2016 were £21.9 billion.
EU Imports for April 2016 were £19.1 billion.

What legislation there was protected us from the worst excesses of the tories??? One mans excesses is another mans fixing the shit that went down on Labours watch!  Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with a lot of the things that have been implemented but we'd be in a much worse position under blundering brown and the red scurge!

Did you miss, by any chance, the manoevering to make Turkey agree to holding back refugees? To keep them from all of our shores, not just yours.

(June 25, 2016 at 11:27 am)madog Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 11:15 am)abaris Wrote: So, it's probably true that the ECHR can take up any case brought forth by any European, but it obviously means the four freedoms of the EU conventions and the human rights charta. If the particular state isn't a member, they can just flip their middle finger at the decision, since it can't be sanctioned under the conventions.

This is misleading .. no European nation can join the EU without being in the Council of Europe and to be in the Council of Europe you must have ratified the ECHR ... Only the EU can put their finger up at the ECHR ....

I don't understand what you mean by "the four freedoms of the EU conventions and the human rights charta" note I spent seven years against two nations, without a lawyer bringing actions in the ECHR ....

But wasn't it part of the Brexit campaign to get rid of the ECHR? And replace the Human Rights Act with a Bill of Rights? How does that fit into this?

(June 25, 2016 at 11:32 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 11:15 am)Allanon Wrote: All it takes is a quick search on Google... [...]

Yeah, thanks. What exactly is that supposed to prove? I'm not denying Turkey would like to be a member, but there are no indications that it will become one in foreseeable future.

Err ... Turkey has been an associate member since 1963, they have to fulfill a certain 72 requirements, they have presently satisfied 65 ... Neither you or I can state whether they will be a member, but they are certainly in line 

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(June 25, 2016 at 11:38 am)Emjay Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 11:27 am)madog Wrote: This is misleading .. no European nation can join the EU without being in the Council of Europe and to be in the Council of Europe you must have ratified the ECHR ... Only the EU can put their finger up at the ECHR ....

I don't understand what you mean by "the four freedoms of the EU conventions and the human rights charta" note I spent seven years against two nations, without a lawyer bringing actions in the ECHR ....

But wasn't it part of the Brexit campaign to get rid of the ECHR? And replace the Human Rights Act with a Bill of Rights? How does that fit into this?

The UK introduced the UK Human rights act in 1998 which is exactly the same as the ECHR, and relies on case-law of the Court of Human Rights ... it was only introduced for convenience so violations could be dealt with in the UK courts to cut down the waiting time and inconvenience in going to Strasbourg ... But even if a violation failed in the UK Courts it can still go to the ECHR ...

A lot of bull is spread by politicians, the UK will never leave the ECHR ....

(June 25, 2016 at 11:38 am)madog Wrote: Err ... Turkey has been an associate member since 1963, they have to fulfill a certain 72 requirements, they have presently satisfied 65 ... Neither you or I can state whether they will be a member, but they are certainly in line 

Is it too much to ask to compare Turkey's current state against EU requirements? I mean, just asking, since this discussion, often as it is heard, based on tabloids and fear mongers, is entirely stupid. Apart from the fact that various states and powerful factions stand against Turkey joining in any case. And it takes a unanimous vote to set that in motion.

As far as association goes. Switzerland is associated in the same way, as is Norway or Iceland. The only difference to being a member state being that they don't have any right to vote, veto or influence any decisions. Which, by the way, is your future too, if you manage to negotiate some kind of association deal.

I'm really tired to have to deal with people, obviously having to google today what the EU stands for, arguing about it's inner workings. It's kind of sad and on the pathetic side.

Vaping.... VAPING. Its all that matters.

(June 25, 2016 at 11:38 am)madog Wrote: Err ... Turkey has been an associate member since 1963, they have to fulfill a certain 72 requirements, they have presently satisfied 65 ... Neither you or I can state whether they will be a member, but they are certainly in line 

Err... How about you try and read the stuff you link to?

Quote:In March 2016, the EU assessed that Turkey at the time met 35 of the necessary 72 requirements for free visa travel throughout Europe.[10] In May 2016, this number had risen to 65 out of 72.[11]

Nothing about Turkey becoming a member. UK may negotiate visa-free travel with EU, after leaving - that won't make it a member either. All EU countries must accept the new member and public opinion in most European countries is against it. What do you imagine Turkey may do to change that, all of a sudden?

Turkey may be in line for as long as it takes them to become an actual European country, which is not going to happen in our lifetimes.

(June 25, 2016 at 11:48 am)LastPoet Wrote: Vaping.... VAPING. Its all that matters.

And you wonder why I'm sometimes losing it hereabouts? Or flee into unchained sarcasm?

(June 25, 2016 at 11:48 am)LastPoet Wrote: Vaping.... VAPING. Its all that matters.

Oh, you're so funny.