All this crap you are preaching at us is white noise. You are trying to build a whole house without foundations here.

You have to start by demonstrating, not just asserting, that your God exists, otherwise it's all just preaching.

---

https://youtu.be/5sEcBzxoMB8

(July 3, 2016 at 5:09 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: However Islam does NOT make sense without belief in the unseen. It revolves and is oriented around that. 

These people can't understand  it because they lack faith in the unseen. They themselves are unseen, so essentially they are denying themselves and neglecting their true reality.

The link with the divine is the greatest gift we have, not valuing that link as it ought to be valued, is not forgivable in Islam.

And what if that link with the unseen is not a link to God, but just a link to unseen natural processes? It being unseen means you can't be sure. So linking it to God as if you were sure is just wishing for it to be so. It's not evidence that the unseen has anything to do with God. I read some of your writings from when you were an atheist for a few weeks. The most prominent mood in your writing was one of fear. I wonder if half the reason you are drawn to seeing metaphysical bugbears in the unseen doesn't have to do with an emotional response. I don't deny that the 'unseen' in terms of self identity, beauty, praise, and so on present important mysteries. But it's just lazy thinking to throw up your hands and say, "well, magic." The unseen doesn't need to be based in absolutes. Your unconscious is also unseen and it doesn't need to be a symptom of God. It's just a natural part of what you are.

Faith is gullibility. It is not a virtue, it's wilful ignorance.

"Faith is the excuse people give when they don't have a good reason for what why believe." - Matt Dillahunty

(July 3, 2016 at 5:31 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 5:09 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: However Islam does NOT make sense without belief in the unseen. It revolves and is oriented around that. 

These people can't understand  it because they lack faith in the unseen. They themselves are unseen, so essentially they are denying themselves and neglecting their true reality.

The link with the divine is the greatest gift we have, not valuing that link as it ought to be valued, is not forgivable in Islam.

And what if that link with the unseen is not a link to God, but just a link to unseen natural processes?  It being unseen means you can't be sure. 

That depends on how you understand the word unseen.  God is both hidden and manifest, we are both hidden and manifest. We are both manifestly there and we are unseen. In fact we are manifestly unseen. That is it's obvious we are unseen. 

Quote: I wonder if half the reason you are drawn to seeing metaphysical bugbears in the unseen doesn't have to do with an emotional response. 

I don't think I would of took the leap of faith without emotion involved.  The issue was emotional for me, but I can easily fooled myself either way. That I can have perpetual identity, praise, objective value, etc, without God in as much as I can fool myself to believing I see God exist.

In the moments of distress, both possible outlooks my mind could of fooled me of. But I don't believe I was fooled. I believe I realized something that I will never doubt again.

(July 3, 2016 at 5:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 5:31 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: And what if that link with the unseen is not a link to God, but just a link to unseen natural processes?  It being unseen means you can't be sure. 

That depends on how you understand the word unseen.  God is both hidden and manifest, we are both hidden and manifest. We are both manifestly there and we are unseen. In fact we are manifestly unseen. That is it's obvious we are unseen. 

What is the manifest aspect of God?

(July 3, 2016 at 5:52 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 5:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: That depends on how you understand the word unseen.  God is both hidden and manifest, we are both hidden and manifest. We are both manifestly there and we are unseen. In fact we are manifestly unseen. That is it's obvious we are unseen. 

What is the manifest aspect of God?

He is manifestly unseen like us and appears in the same way, because he inside everything without being physically located there, and he is what defines existence, and he is light of the light in that every light emerges from him but unlike how rays are separate from the sun, they are lost in the source and not seperate from the source. Just as we can see we exist even though we don't fully comprehend our existence and what makes us who we are, the same is true of God. His holy names have filled the foundations of all things and his name/face is not existing on it's own, rather, God is the living, the blessed.

(July 3, 2016 at 6:01 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 5:52 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: What is the manifest aspect of God?

He is manifestly unseen like us and appears in the same way, because he inside everything without being physically located there, and he is what defines existence, and he is light of the light in that every light emerges from him but unlike how rays are separate from the sun, they are lost in the source and not seperate from the source. Just as we can see we exist even though we don't fully comprehend our existence and what makes us who we are, the same is true of God. His holy names have filled the foundations of all things and his name/face is not existing on it's own, rather, God is the living, the blessed.

Merriam-Webster Wrote:manifest

1 : readily perceived by the senses and especially by the sense of sight

2 : easily understood or recognized by the mind : obvious

Which definition of manifest are you appealing to here? If #2, it seems you have the same problem in that what is unseen is not readily determined. If #1 then I have to ask what you are seeing that I am not. What you are saying sounds an awful lot like, "it's obvious to me even if it isn't obvious to you." Again, what are you looking at that is so 'obvious'? I am manifest in the sense of #1. If God is not also, then you're just equivocating on the meaning of 'manifest'.

His light.

(July 3, 2016 at 12:30 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I posted this on another forum:

This probably would have been best left there. Just my opinion.

MysticKnight Wrote:1. Muslims are a threat to every culture out there

Religion makes people do stupid and crazy things all in the name of a deity. NOT just Muslims. Any religion that has a god interested in using threats and violence in order to subdue people into following them, automatically makes the religion a threat to society.

MysticKnight Wrote:Christianity and Judaism has many of the same original rules of Islam, but, their people don't seek to implement them in today's world.  This is why in Surahs that advocate these teachings it's also emphasized not to fear people but fear God, not fear a blame of a blamer, and be sincere to God in his love and firm against the disbelieving people.

bold mine
Again any religion that teaches it's believers that they must fear the same god they claim loves them, is a dangerous religion. Love should never equate fear. Do we not tell victims of abuse that they don't have to be afraid of their abuser? Do we not teach victims of abuse that their abuser doesn't love them if they demand the victim fear them? So why should a double standard be okay for a god? Answer: it's not okay.

MysticKnight Wrote:Every people abandoned this duty but obviously we cannot. 

Sorry - not "every" people believe in a god. Therefore, not everyone is going to fall for the bs of fearing a god. Especially one that's imaginary.

MysticKnight Wrote:The mess will only be solved by recognizing we need a leader and guide from God.

No, sorry. We don't need a leader or a guide from an unknown who refuses to even directly come down and show his face to provide evidence that he's even real. I'll pass on that whole pretending to have an imaginary friend thing. I already did that as a child. [/quote]

(July 3, 2016 at 6:12 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: His light.

Which isn't actual light but a metaphor for things unseen. We're back to the same problem in that God is not manifest in the sense of being apparent to our senses.