Education is the key to the end of racism as it is the key to so so many other doors too.

(July 9, 2016 at 1:10 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black.

Which means that 60 percent aren't.

Which means 13.5 percent of the population is responsible for 40 percent of the cop killings.

(July 8, 2016 at 8:42 pm)paulpablo Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMaVyAkQnJE

When you watch a video like this, of police brutality, hopefully the first thought that comes to mind isn't that the black lives matter, hopefully you have some sympathy for the white person in the video who has beaten to death with his head swollen up... 

I know that's what you think BLM is about. Having sympathy for people.

What if I told you it's not about that? What if I told you that in order to argue my post didn't speak to the facts that motivate BLM, you would have to provide evidence that:

1. White people are targets of police violence as often as black people
2. The criminal justice system is notorious for failing to hold those police officers accountable for their actions

You made no attempt to do either. Which leaves me with the question: why on earth do you think I wouldn't have sympathy for any victim of police brutality, whatever their race? Don't you think that the suggestion is so ridiculous that it should clue you into the fact that you're strawmanning my position?

Clearly those who insist on doing nothing but extolling the virtues and dedication of the boys in blue are oblivious to the fact that those with aggressive, authoritarian personalities are the type of individuals most commonly drawn to police work as a profession. But by all means, let's all pretend that the majority of cops are Andy Griffith; It moves the story along better.

Understand that those living in reality recognize this as bullshit, though.

I'm sorry the Dallas were killed. I'm sorry for their families; especially their children. I don't believe that cops deserve to die. Neither does some schmuck with a broken tailight.

(July 9, 2016 at 6:40 am)Thena323 Wrote: Clearly those who insist on doing nothing but extolling the virtues and dedication of the boys in blue are oblivious to the fact that those with aggressive, authoritarian personalities are the type of individuals most commonly drawn to police work as a profession. But by all means, let's all pretend that the majority of cops are Andy Griffith; It moves the story along better.

Understand that those living in reality recognize this as bullshit, though.

I'm sorry the Dallas were killed. I'm sorry for their families; especially their children. I don't believe that cops deserve to die. Neither does some schmuck with a broken tailight.

And refusing to accept the reality that the police aren't all knights in shining armor contributes to the occurrence of tragedies like this. Like Losty said, nothing justifies or excuses Dallas, but anyone who thinks a community can deal with what black people have to put up with on a daily basis without anyone snapping is delusional.

Holding police accountable for murdering black people protects the lives of police officers. It's a necessary condition for a criminal justice system everyone can respect. We can never succeed in making all humans perfect, but we can certainly succeed in becoming aware of our flaws.

(July 8, 2016 at 5:09 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(July 8, 2016 at 4:04 pm)A Theist Wrote: What a nice thing to do. I'm inspired to do the same. These are men and women whose lives are in jeopardy everyday and feel as though they have no support. 


The irony in the Dallas murders is that these officers were killed protecting the rights of the people who were protesting against them.

Actually they were protesting cops who murder people for the fuck of it but I know such nuances are lost on the likes of you.

Moderator Notice
Fixed quote tags. ~Losty

Just like the nuances in the titles of the two "Fucking Cops"  threads you started, "Volumes, I & II?  You're a hate monger. That's the sort you are.

BLM is a hate group. There's no nuances about the shit they do. There's nothing peaceful about them. They're frauds. They're the ones who are stoking the fires for violence and murder against police officers....

(July 9, 2016 at 6:36 am)Gemini Wrote:

(July 8, 2016 at 8:42 pm)paulpablo Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMaVyAkQnJE

When you watch a video like this, of police brutality, hopefully the first thought that comes to mind isn't that the black lives matter, hopefully you have some sympathy for the white person in the video who has beaten to death with his head swollen up... 

I know that's what you think BLM is about. Having sympathy for people.

What if I told you it's not about that? What if I told you that in order to argue my post didn't speak to the facts that motivate BLM, you would have to provide evidence that:

1. White people are targets of police violence as often as black people
2. The criminal justice system is notorious for failing to hold those police officers accountable for their actions

You made no attempt to do either. Which leaves me with the question: why on earth do you think I wouldn't have sympathy for any victim of police brutality, whatever their race? Don't you think that the suggestion is so ridiculous that it should clue you into the fact that you're strawmanning my position?

I don't know your position. I was responding to the cartoon and saying that black lives matter divides what could be an organised group protesting against police brutality into an organization that gives preferential treatment to victims based on racial characteristics rather than dealing with individual circumstances.

(July 9, 2016 at 8:32 am)paulpablo Wrote: I don't know your position.

That's unfortunate and disappointing, because my position is what Black Lives Matter is actually about.

Quote:I was responding to the cartoon and saying that black lives matter divides what could be an organised group protesting against police brutality into an organization that gives preferential treatment to victims based on racial characteristics rather than dealing with individual circumstances.

There is an obvious difference between "not being discriminated against" (which is what BLM is about) and receiving "preferential treatment" (which is not what BLM is about). Again, in order to argue against the BLM position, you're going to acknowledge the beliefs that are actually held by people who support BLM, and then if you wish to dispute the validity of the movement, provide evidence that black people aren't being discriminated against. Nobody is asking for victims to receive preferential treatment based on racial characteristics.

Everyone is so bent on on focusing on labels. I think humans do not understand that any type of physical violence, or witness to such, is going to mentally scramble someone's brains. We are not a separate species. We cant talk about someone in terms of labels all we want, but the truth is you put anyone in a position, military or not, war or civilian, or neighborhood, anywhere in the world, in a position of being witness to violence, it will lead that person to react. NO it is no more an excuse than any other. But an explanation. To a much smaller scale, the same thing causes a bullied kid to grow up to become a bully and or be destructive.

These are NOT excuses, but taking in terms of CONDITIONS in terms of how any human can react psychologically and be mentally affected by what they repeatedly see. Even EMTs can suffer PTSD after showing up to things like a baby dying in a car accident.

I am fucking sick of theists OF ALL LABELS acting like a fucking label, or skin color or boarder, when one suffers at the hands of another, stupidly thinks that because they were wrongfully hurt in that single case, that by proxy of label, outside that context, that label never does anything wrong.

NO AND FUCK YOU, Muslims and Jews and Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and even atheists, we are all the same species. Blacks and whites and cops are human beings. Knowing that guy was x military, to me is no different than knowing what the Fort Hood shooter was x military, and knowing even without mass shootings, how many military come home with PTSD and either commit suicide or even murder their spouses.

Witnessing any type of trauma as a kid or an adult always to greater or lesser degrees have an affect on the witness or victim. You don't accept that because you sympathize with more violence in response. You accept that as pure psychological evolution so that you can work to seek preventive actions and intervention. Our species needs to learn more in terms of evolutionary psychology and not simply always default to beating the shit out someone who hurt us. Certainly reacting to violence IS NORMAL, but unfortunately, it works the same way for those who act outside the law as well. You subject any human to violence, you can say they deserved it all you want, regardless, if that "enemy" thinks they are justified because of what they think you did, thy are reacting like any human would, regardless of how bad their logic may be.

That also cuts to the core why we DONT need more guns. We need better training for cops, We need more funding for non-lethal crisis training. We need better vetting to insure the mentally ill don't get them. We need conditions so that bot society and cops are not set up to fear each other. Blacks are not sub human, and neither are cops. All 7 billion humans civilian or not, still stem from the same DNA of our common ancestors. So the issue is bad logic. The issue is irrationally buying into fear, so that one industry can profit off the deaths of both cops and blacks.

It is the same reaction you get in PTSD from Palestinians or Jews whom subject each other, but morso the kids of both, you constantly live in fear and you see violence all around you, you form irrational perceptions and groups, from street gangs, to political nationalism and religion, and forming those groups DOES have the predictive behavior of group survival, but that same PTSD causes different groups to fight each other. It is why this guy shot the cops, no matter how wrong it is. It is why cops also default to "fear the worst", because of all the violence they may see on a daily or weekly basis.

You take acts as individual acts, but you also consider the climate of conditions that can lead to those individual acts. Just like you treat each hurricane as unique but you can understand what conditions have the potential to lead to one. The fact is, weapons of war, guns, and violence, on a global scale, all he way down to a hate group level, to the gang level, to the bully level. We want to believe those things are different, but no matter how big or small the scale, or the degree of physical harm, trauma, even spousal abuse or child abuse, all have psychological affects to the witness and or victim.

We have got to stop this bullshit mentality, especially with men, that having guns makes you "manly" and "brave". No it just makes you stupid. It is bad enough humans need weapons, but the horrible logic coming from the right, is they scream "fear government", but are the same people that when a cop is murdered will scream "give them the death penalty".

How about better logic? How about creating conditions where nobody gets that desperate? How about we create also better conditions so cops aren't trained to shoot first? How about vetting the public better in the first place, so that both society and cops don't have to live in fear of witnessing violence or death?
We don't need more guns. We don't need to be telling men, you need to get violent to prove your bravery.

(July 9, 2016 at 7:46 am)A Theist Wrote: [...]

BLM is a hate group. 

[...]

You're judging the entire BLM movement by the words and actions of its worst members. This is how humans dehumanize and demonize other humans. You're also posting videos which make misleading and false claims. It's true that black people are arrested and incarcerated at higher rates than white people; but it's appalling to blame this on the black community. 

This is the sort of thing that black people have to deal with: 

"...no one I talked to who has done criminal defense work in Alabama was surprised by the allegations, and all had negative things to say about Dothan, Houston County, and District Attorney Doug Valeska in particular. (Valeska has been DA there for more than 20 years.) One prominent defense attorney in the state says the county is so rife with racism that he had advised black clients to take plea bargains even when they have corroborating witnesses, simply because white jurors there just tend to assume that black people are lying." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...black-men/)

These videos also repeat the "racist and patently false narrative amplified by mainstream media that the majority of black fathers are scurrilous beings who are locked up and tuned out, low on education and high on weed..." http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/...her_s_day/

This is how you should view BLM. From George Chidi, a black man who marched in a peaceful protest on the night of the Dallas tragedy:

"If one truly believes police brutality against black people must end, the absolutely single worst thing one could do is commit a spree killing of several police officers at a police brutality protest. It is atavistic, anarchistic, sociopathic evil. We marched today, in peace. We protested like citizens. We sought healing, and justice. All of that was stolen from us today. I can't actually think of a better way to make every cop in America more likely to reach for their gun the next time they stop a black man who looks twitchy. This is a disaster -- for the honored dead, for their families, for the police in general, for black lives, and for the state of our democracy. We are beyond politics today."