(June 19, 2016 at 7:29 am)RozKek Wrote: I just have a simply question. Which Qur'an is the closest to the original Qur'an or most widely accepted (in english, thanks). Please don't say it's never been altered, that's not what I asked for. And elaborate; why exactly is it thought that that Qur'an is the closest to the original Qur'an or why it is the most widely accepted.

Can you produce a Koran that doesn't have numbered chapters and verses and nice paragraphs?

To answer the OPs question of best Quran, I really like the Study Quran. If I'm unsure about a verse I simply look it up in the Study Quran and it gives me loads of information about it. I think it's great. Very informative. I say that as a non-religious person who takes an interest in such things.
Here is the Amazon link (so you know what it looks like): https://www.amazon.com/Study-Quran-New-T...0061125865

(June 19, 2016 at 7:29 am)RozKek Wrote: I just have a simply question. Which Qur'an is the closest to the original Qur'an or most widely accepted (in english, thanks). Please don't say it's never been altered, that's not what I asked for. And elaborate; why exactly is it thought that that Qur'an is the closest to the original Qur'an or why it is the most widely accepted.

U can use any Qur'an to learn the message. I know it's not what ur asking for, but the truth is what the truth is. The Arabic is the original language which is unchanged. The English and all other languages in which it is translated are opinions from translators as to what word to use. For example The Arabic words Ar-Rahman which is one of the 99 attributes of Allah Almighty is translated by some as The Most Gracious, and by others as The Merciful Benefactor, where by others The Beneficent. So these are 3 different English terms used for one of the attributes of God. They are optionally used by translators but as u see they all are synonymous in meaning with one another. The Arabs in the time of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh were vain of their knowledge of poetry, linguistics in using certain words that had a hundred different meanings for the same word, their knowledge of mathematics, and also their knowledge of science and astronomy. So Allah revealed this Qur'an in the Arabic language in which gives His eternal message, in which the chapter verses rhyme, and which contain many miracles of mathematics, linguistics, science and astronomy to show only Allah, The One Who is All-Knowing, could produce such a scripture that humbles mankind's vanity of that which they thought they were so knowledgeable about.

(June 20, 2016 at 4:01 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: To answer the OPs question of best Quran, I really like the Study Quran. If I'm unsure about a verse I simply look it up in the Study Quran and it gives me loads of information about it. I think it's great. Very informative. I say that as a non-religious person who takes an interest in such things.
Here is the Amazon link (so you know what it looks like): https://www.amazon.com/Study-Quran-New-T...0061125865

U should look into the miracles of the Qur'an that prove no human being, but only God Almighty could produce such a scripture. There are too many linguistic, mathematical, scientific and even astronomical miracles within it that the people of the 7th century did not have any knowledge of, but we with today's technology verify it as the absolute truth. There are so many different ones that we have been blessed to have knowledge about and many which are only known by God Allah alone. However the limited number that we do have access to is entirely too many to be just coincidental. If u  would like I would be more than happy to share them with u my friend.

(July 11, 2016 at 3:19 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(June 20, 2016 at 4:01 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: To answer the OPs question of best Quran, I really like the Study Quran. If I'm unsure about a verse I simply look it up in the Study Quran and it gives me loads of information about it. I think it's great. Very informative. I say that as a non-religious person who takes an interest in such things.
Here is the Amazon link (so you know what it looks like): https://www.amazon.com/Study-Quran-New-T...0061125865

U should look into the miracles of the Qur'an that prove no human being, but only God Almighty could produce such a scripture. There are too many linguistic, mathematical, scientific and even astronomical miracles within it that the people of the 7th century did not have any knowledge of, but we with today's technology verify it as the absolute truth. There are so many different ones that we have been blessed to have knowledge about and many which are only known by God Allah alone. However the limited number that we do have access to is entirely too many to be just coincidental. If u  would like I would be more than happy to share them with u my friend.

Ok. Can you present me with the miracles as you wish. One by one or two by two. Present them to me and I can debunk them. I've done this before, I'm not in the mood to write another essay. Also, to clarify. They are miracles because you claim that no human can have had such knowledge without the help from god. Do you agree on that is what miracles are?

(July 11, 2016 at 4:01 pm)RozKek Wrote:

(July 11, 2016 at 3:19 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: U should look into the miracles of the Qur'an that prove no human being, but only God Almighty could produce such a scripture. There are too many linguistic, mathematical, scientific and even astronomical miracles within it that the people of the 7th century did not have any knowledge of, but we with today's technology verify it as the absolute truth. There are so many different ones that we have been blessed to have knowledge about and many which are only known by God Allah alone. However the limited number that we do have access to is entirely too many to be just coincidental. If u  would like I would be more than happy to share them with u my friend.

Ok. Can you present me with the miracles as you wish. One by one or two by two. Present them to me and I can debunk them. I've done this before, I'm not in the mood to write another essay. Also, to clarify. They are miracles because you claim that no human can have had such knowledge without the help from god. Do you agree on that is what miracles are?

Yes my friend. A miracle is an act committed with the will and power of God that cannot be naturally done by any living being. Such as Moses pbuh parting the sea and staff turning into a serpent and Jesus pbuh being born to a virgin woman, raising the dead, healing lepers. These were all miracles that were put in place by God for a purpose to show His power as God is the mightiest. Now for a few of the Qur'anic miracles. I have more for u if u like but I will start with 2 examples of each topic mathematic, scientific, astronomical and linguistic:
Mathematics:
The word for land in Arabic is used 13 times and the word for sea is used 32 throughout the Qur'an. 32+13=45. 13/45=28.88888889% and 32/45=71.1111111111%. Scientists have verified today that these are the exact percentages of land and water that cover our Earth's surface to this day. Each chapter of the Qur'an has a # of verses. If u add the chapter # and the # of verses u get an even or odd #. This is elementary. (ex Ch. 1 has 7 verses 1+7=8 even #). When this is done for each of the 114 chapters u get exactly 57 even # and 57 odd #. Adding all 57 evens gives u 6,236 which is the total # of verses in the entire Qur'an. Adding all odds gives u 6,555 which is the sum of 1+2+3....114.  

Science:
Chapter 57 is Al-Hadyd or "The Iron". Arabic and Hebrew letters have numerical value in a sense like Roman Numerals. Using letters without vowels the word Hadyd (H=8 D=4 Y=10 and D=4) these total 26. Go to any scientific periodic element chart and locate Fe the symbol for iron, u will see the atomic number is 26. When u add the Arabic article "Al" making it "The Iron" the name of the chapter, A=1 and L=30 equaling 31. 31+26=57 which is the chapter number of the Qur'an. Also 57 is exactly halfway through the 114 Qur'anic chapters. If u cut the Earth exactly in half the inner core consists of IRON. The word Qamar or "moon" is used exactly 27 times throughout the Qur'an. The word Ahilah "New Moons" is used only once. 27+1=28 and scientists have discovered there are exactly 28 stages in the monthly lunar cycle of the moon as it orbits our Earth. Also in Ch.54 Al-Qamar "The Moon" the word moon is only used in verse 1. If u count the remaining verses to the end of the Qur'an u get 1390. The year 1390 in the Islamic Hijra calendar equals the year 1969 of the Gregorian Calendar that we go by today. We all know man first set foot on the moon
in 1969.

Linguistics:
These words I will list are not used in the same verse after verse. They are spread out throughout the entire scripture. The word for man and woman are each used 23 times. And males and females each have 23 sex chromosomes. The word for day in its singular form is used exactly 365 times. The word for month is used 12 times. Angels and devils are each used 88 times. This life and Hereafter are each used 115 times. Allah says Jesus pbuh is like Adam pbuh meaning He created them both. Another way they are alike is their names are mentioned exactly 25 times each. They are only mentioned in the same verse twice. With the miracle of the #19 in the Qur'an which I can cover with u later, the last time both Adam and Jesus pbut are mentioned in the same verse is the 19th time Adam pbuh is mentioned and the 19th time Jesus pbuh is mentioned and it is in the 19th chapter of the Qur'an.

Astronomy:
Chapter 46 is Al-Ahqaf which means "Sand dunes" in 46:23 it says "MA uRSil'tu bihi" meaning "What I am sent with". In verse 46:30 it says "unzila min ba'aDi MOoSaa" meaning "Revealed after Moses". Now these verses don't mention anything astronomical in message. But look at letters I capitalized in quotation marks. The Arabic letters Mim(M) Alif(A) Ra® and Sin(S) appear in this order and spell "MARS" where the capital letters Dal(D)Mim(M)Waw(O)and Sin(S) in order spell "DMOS". The name of one of the moons that orbits Mars is called "Deimos". This is the only chapter these names are both mentioned together and with today's technology, scientists have recently discovered Mars is a planet completely covered with "sand dunes" which IS ALSO the name of this chapter. Ch.53 An-Najm  "The Star" in verse 9 refers to the distance the Archangel Gabriel was near the Prophet Muhammad pbuh during the revelation of the Qur'an 53:9(And was at a distance of but TWO BOW-LENGTHS or even nearer). In verse 49 The Mighty star Sirius is mentioned 53:49 (And He (Allah) is Lord of Sirius the Mighty Star). Scientists have discovered Sirius is actually a double star that orbits in a bow-shape (TWO BOWS) and its orbit lasts 49.9 years which are the 2 separate verse # that these are mentioned in the Qur'an of Ch.53 The Star. UNLIKE English and MANY other languages, In Arabic there is no letter "V". So in Arabic the letter "W" is used to replace "V". In 8:72 it says "Wa ENUS tansurookum" meaning "And if they seek your help" The letters "WENUS" appear in order and WITH THE W REPLACING THE V THIS WOULD SPELL THE PLANET VENUS. the next verse where they appear again is in 11:3 "Wa ENUStaghfiru rabbakum" meaning "And seek forgiveness of your Lord". In 17:7 it says "Wa ENUSatum" or "If you do evil". It SHOWS HERE that there are 243 verses between 8:72 and 11:3. Scientists have discovered it takes the planet Venus 243 days to revolve around the sun rotating on its own axis in an opposite direction of other planets. But to go further it rotates on an angle of 177 degrees (17:7).
 
 So all of these my friend plus many more I can share with u show that these all can't be coincidences but there was a genius blueprint and strategy that no human being could put forward. Especially in a scripture, revealed verses at a time, over a 23 year period. This is truly the word of God alone which none other can claim.

I wish you could speak to my parents Sheed1980. My mum thinks i sound like the Shaytan (maybe even possessed) because I don't find the Bible convincing. She said this during Ramadan when the demon are chained according to the Sunni Hadith.

She is nuts for even suggesting that because that would mean every Da'i such as yourself is also working for the Shaytan. I would love you to show them all of the things wrong with the Bible because I suspect you're more knowledgeable than I am on the Bible. And then, because my dad went to Bible college, so he studied religion, he will tell you how you're wrong.

People think I'm doing the work of Shaytan by not finding the Quran convincing either and telling people about my concerns. Everyone accusing everyone else of doing the work of the Shaytan. It's getting silly. I guess Ramadan is over now so that means the demon from the hellfire has once again possessed my body.

It was Wahabi-Salafis like Ahmed Deedat and Shabir Ally that made me abandon religion. A few ago I thought one religion must be right. But then I had a realisation.

If I wanna know how bad the Bible is I go to you guys. If I wanna know all of the problems with the Quran I could ask a Swami or a Bishop. All the work of disproving every religion is done by Theists themselves. I just sick back, relax, and enjoy the (very informative) squabbling between people of different religions.

They all make great toilet paper.

(July 11, 2016 at 7:16 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(July 11, 2016 at 4:01 pm)RozKek Wrote:

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Ok. Can you present me with the miracles as you wish. One by one or two by two. Present them to me and I can debunk them. I've done this before, I'm not in the mood to write another essay. Also, to clarify. They are miracles because you claim that no human can have had such knowledge without the help from god. Do you agree on that is what miracles are?

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Yes my friend. A miracle is an act committed with the will and power of God that cannot be naturally done by any living being. Such as Moses pbuh parting the sea and staff turning into a serpent and Jesus pbuh being born to a virgin woman, raising the dead, healing lepers. These were all miracles that were put in place by God for a purpose to show His power as God is the mightiest. Now for a few of the Qur'anic miracles. I have more for u if u like but I will start with 2 examples of each topic mathematic, scientific, astronomical and linguistic:
Mathematics:
The word for land in Arabic is used 13 times and the word for sea is used 32 throughout the Qur'an. 32+13=45. 13/45=28.88888889% and 32/45=71.1111111111%. Scientists have verified today that these are the exact percentages of land and water that cover our Earth's surface to this day. Each chapter of the Qur'an has a # of verses. If u add the chapter # and the # of verses u get an even or odd #. This is elementary. (ex Ch. 1 has 7 verses 1+7=8 even #). When this is done for each of the 114 chapters u get exactly 57 even # and 57 odd #. Adding all 57 evens gives u 6,236 which is the total # of verses in the entire Qur'an. Adding all odds gives u 6,555 which is the sum of 1+2+3....114.  

Science:
Chapter 57 is Al-Hadyd or "The Iron". Arabic and Hebrew letters have numerical value in a sense like Roman Numerals. Using letters without vowels the word Hadyd (H=8 D=4 Y=10 and D=4) these total 26. Go to any scientific periodic element chart and locate Fe the symbol for iron, u will see the atomic number is 26. When u add the Arabic article "Al" making it "The Iron" the name of the chapter, A=1 and L=30 equaling 31. 31+26=57 which is the chapter number of the Qur'an. Also 57 is exactly halfway through the 114 Qur'anic chapters. If u cut the Earth exactly in half the inner core consists of IRON. The word Qamar or "moon" is used exactly 27 times throughout the Qur'an. The word Ahilah "New Moons" is used only once. 27+1=28 and scientists have discovered there are exactly 28 stages in the monthly lunar cycle of the moon as it orbits our Earth. Also in Ch.54 Al-Qamar "The Moon" the word moon is only used in verse 1. If u count the remaining verses to the end of the Qur'an u get 1390. The year 1390 in the Islamic Hijra calendar equals the year 1969 of the Gregorian Calendar that we go by today. We all know man first set foot on the moon
in 1969.

Linguistics:
These words I will list are not used in the same verse after verse. They are spread out throughout the entire scripture. The word for man and woman are each used 23 times. And males and females each have 23 sex chromosomes. The word for day in its singular form is used exactly 365 times. The word for month is used 12 times. Angels and devils are each used 88 times. This life and Hereafter are each used 115 times. Allah says Jesus pbuh is like Adam pbuh meaning He created them both. Another way they are alike is their names are mentioned exactly 25 times each. They are only mentioned in the same verse twice. With the miracle of the #19 in the Qur'an which I can cover with u later, the last time both Adam and Jesus pbut are mentioned in the same verse is the 19th time Adam pbuh is mentioned and the 19th time Jesus pbuh is mentioned and it is in the 19th chapter of the Qur'an.

Astronomy:
Chapter 46 is Al-Ahqaf which means "Sand dunes" in 46:23 it says "MA uRSil'tu bihi" meaning "What I am sent with". In verse 46:30 it says "unzila min ba'aDi MOoSaa" meaning "Revealed after Moses". Now these verses don't mention anything astronomical in message. But look at letters I capitalized in quotation marks. The Arabic letters Mim(M) Alif(A) Ra® and Sin(S) appear in this order and spell "MARS" where the capital letters Dal(D)Mim(M)Waw(O)and Sin(S) in order spell "DMOS". The name of one of the moons that orbits Mars is called "Deimos". This is the only chapter these names are both mentioned together and with today's technology, scientists have recently discovered Mars is a planet completely covered with "sand dunes" which IS ALSO the name of this chapter. Ch.53 An-Najm  "The Star" in verse 9 refers to the distance the Archangel Gabriel was near the Prophet Muhammad pbuh during the revelation of the Qur'an 53:9(And was at a distance of but TWO BOW-LENGTHS or even nearer). In verse 49 The Mighty star Sirius is mentioned 53:49 (And He (Allah) is Lord of Sirius the Mighty Star). Scientists have discovered Sirius is actually a double star that orbits in a bow-shape (TWO BOWS) and its orbit lasts 49.9 years which are the 2 separate verse # that these are mentioned in the Qur'an of Ch.53 The Star. UNLIKE English and MANY other languages, In Arabic there is no letter "V". So in Arabic the letter "W" is used to replace "V". In 8:72 it says "Wa ENUS tansurookum" meaning "And if they seek your help" The letters "WENUS" appear in order and WITH THE W REPLACING THE V THIS WOULD SPELL THE PLANET VENUS. the next verse where they appear again is in 11:3 "Wa ENUStaghfiru rabbakum" meaning "And seek forgiveness of your Lord". In 17:7 it says "Wa ENUSatum" or "If you do evil". It SHOWS HERE that there are 243 verses between 8:72 and 11:3. Scientists have discovered it takes the planet Venus 243 days to revolve around the sun rotating on its own axis in an opposite direction of other planets. But to go further it rotates on an angle of 177 degrees (17:7).
 
 So all of these my friend plus many more I can share with u show that these all can't be coincidences but there was a genius blueprint and strategy that no human being could put forward. Especially in a scripture, revealed verses at a time, over a 23 year period. This is truly the word of God alone which none other can claim.

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Ahem, this is not what I expected, I expected the other scientific miracles. However, what you're doing right now is very well explained in this video To make it easy to understand, if you have big enough numbers, words and information you'll find all kinds of coincidences and patterns, and yes. They are coincidences and patterns, nothing more. It's mathematics, if you're gonna argue against mathematics, go ahead. So that should debunk pretty much everything you've said, but I'm not done. This should answer the "Science" and "Astronomy" claims, because you've used a heavy instance of math there. Whether you believe it or not, that is a mathematical coincidence no matter how much it doesn't look like it. Also humans have a tendency to seek patterns in random data, google up Apophenia. That's why you think this is miraculous, you assign the coincidences to a miraculous action from God.

I can add some more arguments against the linguistics: The word for day is actually used 475 times according to However, to be fair, wikiislam has it's criticism that you can view here, it actually made a page about it's criticism from both muslims and non-muslims .

The word month is actually used 21 times according to  
The word man is used 117 times
The word woman is used 12 times
The word angel is used 10 times
The word devil is used 4 times
Here and hereafter is used around 15 times
The ones about Jesus and Adam don't need to be coincidences, the writers could've just put it there... it's quite obvious.
The conclusion here is, you're wrong with the numbers.

Regarding the rest i.e astronomy, science etc, you've used heavy mathematics and they're pure coincidences, the video by Vsauce I linked demonstrates that.

This one wasn't fun to argue against it was just maths maths maths, however, thanks for taking your time. Hope we both learned something so far.

And, yes. They actually can be coincidences whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not. Mathematics =)

The only Qur'anic Mushaf is the Arabic Qur'an. Every other Qur'an is just an interpretation as per Islamic doctrine.