Kind of amused this thread is even a thing.

Look, when my friends and I go on photography walks, you know what happens? I get spoken to politely by the cops who are watching the big buildings in Charlotte. They yes ma'am and no ma'am me and flirt with me on occasion (ew to the security guards).

You know what they do to my black friend? Chase him off - usually trying to haul him off...for questioning. And he has a more professional looking kit than I do - like you can tell (if you're a photog) that this dude is ready to do some serious artsy architecture photography. But his skin is darker than khaki so of course he's profiled. I never have to worry that someone will label me a thug, terrorist or anything else. Because I"m white and I'm female.

That's just a small "snapshot" in our daily differences.

Yes, white privilege is real.

It's that thing I use to talk my way out of a ticket rather than get shot reaching for the registration.

(July 14, 2016 at 9:26 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I'm sorry, but the irony in your conclusions about white privilege is palpable.

I cannot speak for England, but in America, as a black person, you have no clue what you're talking about. While I object to Buzzfeed's use of the word 'never' in most of those memes, a lot of their examples are spot on.

By and large, white people do not have to deal with a lot of the systemic injustices that are a part of everyday life for people of color. Some of the things you said were "Not True. Without a doubt" are absolutely credible examples of white privilege.

The fact that regularly people act surprised at how well spoken I am, or that white people dressed with the exact same clothing (hoodies, baggy jeans, certain natural hairstyles) will be labelled stylish when a black person would be labelled a thug, the worry (not the prospect that it will never happen, but the consistent, constant concern) that any contact with police could be your last or could end up in imprisonment or violence, or that if you wear your hair the way it naturally grows out you might not get a job or might be pigeonholed into a cultural meme are all examples of white privilege.

None of these things never happen to white people. It's not that only black people have to deal with these things. It's that what you don't or won't recognize is that these little things are part of everyday life for black people and other people of color. Every day. There are other factors at play, sure. There's economic/class privilege that plays a lot into it.

The most telling aspect is that black people are saying, "hey--pay attention, you guys by and large don't have to deal with this crap all the time." And a lot of white people are seriously just dismissing this out of hand, like "no you don't" or "it's not that bad, get over it." This is the most invasive type of privilege.

How would I know that I have white privilege? I can't know when I've got a job over someone else because the interviewer unconsciously prefers white people. I hardly ever bother doing anything with my hair and it can get quite unruly. I don't even own a hair drier and until your post I've never known that if I was black then this would have had an impact on how people perceive me. I wear fleeces (hoodies) and I look like a sports chick rather than a thug. I walk or drive along the streets without worrying about being stopped by the police and because of this I'm never aware that it's an issue for other people who aren't white.

But I am aware of male privilege. There have been countless examples of me being denied a job because I'm a woman. I've seen it from the other side as well. I interviewed a white man who was much older than everyone else in the company. We wanted to hire him. The CV went up to the manager who never met him and instantly decided that he wouldn't be a good fit because of his age. I saw the same thing happen to me for several years in my mid thirties when as a childless woman I was considered a child bearing risk.  And the times that my opinions have been ignored and discounted when in a group of men even though I know that I am right and am later proved to be. I work in a male dominated profession so it's something I am very aware of. Or when my boss gave work in my specialist area to someone else who struggled with it and ignored all my years of experience. I knew that what he was going to would fail but everyone ignored me.

If I mention this to my brother who is also a software engineer he dismisses it. He comes up with excuses or tries to rationalise it away. And by doing so perpetuates male privilege.

If a demographic tells me that I am privileged in a certain way, why should I not believe them? My default position is to accept what they say because I'm not the one living their lives.

I remember when the head of TATA steel met the Queen and an ambassador/negotiator chap from the foreign office (who happened to be a white guy) for a meeting of some sort during the steel crisis in Northern England.

The white guy was called privileged for being apart of that meeting. The irony made me laugh.

(July 14, 2016 at 9:20 pm)Tres Leches Wrote: Maybe white privilege is real. To what extent though? Who knows?
It's a reductive way of viewing society.

It's real insofar as police forces use racial profiling. It's real when it's used to racially discriminate against certain people. It's real when it comes to job opportunities and it's still real when it comes to mixed couples.

For most people, I guess, it wouldn't even cross their minds to invoke white privilege. But as long as there's still a substantial minority discriminating against other races, white privilege is very real, stupid or not, since even the ones being above it, profit by proxy if they happen to be white.

(July 15, 2016 at 3:35 am)abaris Wrote: For most people, I guess, it wouldn't even cross their minds to invoke white privilege. But as long as there's still a substantial minority discriminating against other races, white privilege is very real, stupid or not, since even the ones being above it, profit by proxy if they happen to be white.

I'm hoping it will now work in my favour when I next look for work in Germany, which I found to be far more sexist than the UK. I know the Germans are somewhat behind in this area, they still ask for photos on CVs (resumes) for example. I once spoke to a Romanian woman at a lady's coding meet-up who complained that she couldn't find a job because everyone assumed that Romanian was the same as Roma. Nor are Brits perceived in the same way as the Slavs for example.

But now they've let in loads of immigrants interviewers might think that a white British woman with a half way decent German accent is better than a male Syrian. I've been putting a lot of work into my German accent because my experience of moving from England to Scotland in the 90's when the place was still raw with anger at Thatcher taught me how important it is in whether you are perceived to belong. The only problem is that people then assume that my German is much better than it is and that I'm just stupid when I stand there with a confused expression on my face.

Or maybe Germany's institutionalised sexism will be stronger than their racism? I'll be interested to find out.

To be clear, most white privilege isn't something that white people are guilty of, or something they're actively doing. Rather, it's tiny little things in our society that build up. It comes to a boiling point when people start talking about it openly, and when social media can so easily bring people with common experiences together. It becomes harder to maintain the ruse that it's just me, or just my city/state.

(July 14, 2016 at 11:46 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Kind of amused this thread is even a thing.

Look, when my friends and I go on photography walks, you know what happens? I get spoken to politely by the cops who are watching the big buildings in Charlotte. They yes ma'am and no ma'am me and flirt with me on occasion (ew to the security guards).

You know what they do to my black friend? Chase him off - usually trying to haul him off...for questioning. And he has a more professional looking kit than I do - like you can tell (if you're a photog) that this dude is ready to do some serious artsy architecture photography. But his skin is darker than khaki so of course he's profiled. I never have to worry that someone will label me a thug, terrorist or anything else. Because I"m white and I'm female.

That's just a small "snapshot" in our daily differences.

Yes, white privilege is real.

In this instance I'd say that it could be a case of female privilege.

Just because of the fact that as a white man I've been threatened by a security guard, that he would steal my phone off me for taking pictures of a building he worked in. I was actually just taking pictures of a street sign nearby.  It would have been completely illegal for him to do that but he still made the threat.

That was while cycling through the city center, as an attractive female I'm pretty sure no one would stop you asking why you're in the area and that they suspect you of stealing cars.  Which happened to me.  Or you won't get passers by shouting "How many drugs have you sold today?"  Maybe I just manage to look like a criminal even while being innocent and white somehow.  I just can't imagine these things ever happening to an attractive female, and flirting with security guards and the police never works for me either.

(July 14, 2016 at 9:26 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I'm sorry, but the irony in your conclusions about white privilege is palpable.

I cannot speak for England, but in America, as a black person, you have no clue what you're talking about. While I object to Buzzfeed's use of the word 'never' in most of those memes, a lot of their examples are spot on.

By and large, white people do not have to deal with a lot of the systemic injustices that are a part of everyday life for people of color. Some of the things you said were "Not True. Without a doubt" are absolutely credible examples of white privilege.

The fact that regularly people act surprised at how well spoken I am, or that white people dressed with the exact same clothing (hoodies, baggy jeans, certain natural hairstyles) will be labelled stylish when a black person would be labelled a thug, the worry (not the prospect that it will never happen, but the consistent, constant concern) that any contact with police could be your last or could end up in imprisonment or violence, or that if you wear your hair the way it naturally grows out you might not get a job or might be pigeonholed into a cultural meme are all examples of white privilege.

None of these things never happen to white people. It's not that only black people have to deal with these things. It's that what you don't or won't recognize is that these little things are part of everyday life for black people and other people of color. Every day. There are other factors at play, sure. There's economic/class privilege that plays a lot into it.

The most telling aspect is that black people are saying, "hey--pay attention, you guys by and large don't have to deal with this crap all the time." And a lot of white people are seriously just dismissing this out of hand, like "no you don't" or "it's not that bad, get over it." This is the most invasive type of privilege.

But can you see how it would be annoying as a white person to be told you don't have to deal with things you definitely have to deal with?

Especially the last one, white people get to walk the earth without being aware of their colour?

Because I'd really fit in perfectly well without standing out in China, Nigeria, Pakistan, India,  Ethiopia, Japan, Korea.
I have friends in work who are Pakistani and I'm pretty certain they would be more safe than me while in Pakistan, same as the Nigerians who I work with.

(July 15, 2016 at 4:27 am)paulpablo Wrote: But can you see how it would be annoying as a white person to be told you don't have to deal with things you definitely have to deal with?

Especially the last one, white people get to walk the earth without being aware of their colour?

Because I'd really fit in perfectly well without standing out in China, Nigeria, Pakistan, India,  Ethiopia, Japan, Korea.
I have friends in work who are Pakistani and I'm pretty certain they would be more safe than me while in Pakistan, same as the Nigerians who I work with.

Come on Paul. I'm not talking about Pakistan or China. That is such a red herring, I really don't know why you brought it up. We can talk about xenophobia and nationalism if you'd like. I'm talking about people who were born in America, whose families have been in America for a long time, and who have to fear small examples of racism every day, in nearly every aspect of society.

I live in Tennessee. The black side of my family has been in this country for ~240 years longer than the white side of my family. Every day, everywhere I go, it is more than possible that I will be followed around in a store. I have been told to leave a small restaurant because 'we don't serve no ISIS here.' I was pulled over by a cop two months after I got out of the US Navy and had a service weapon pulled on me because I didn't request permission to reach into my glove box. People tell me "you're very articulate," surprised. I am constantly, consistently aware and reminded that I'm brown.

I have black female friends who have to tell people all the time not to touch their fucking hair. Who don't get jobs because they wear they hair natural. Who can't be angry about anything without being seen as the typical out of control black female.

And then we have to explain why it's not the same if you have to travel to a foreign country in order to experience the same issues.