(April 17, 2011 at 5:25 pm)JohnDG Wrote: God is nearly the religous idea of a perfect being, I am in no way perfect, nor strive to be. I was born into the lowest postion in life and I refused to stay there, and Im slowly but surely climbing my way to the top. Not everyone has this motive in life, just us who were cursed to be at the lowest position from the day we were born.

Who cursed you, it can't be the One you do not believe exist so who is it. Since you do not believe in anything supernatural how is it you believe you were even cursed. Maybe you believe luck cursed you but how can that be luck does not exist either, so how is it you believe that you were cursed when there is nothing that exist that can curse you. You must be as delusional as you believe christians to be, does that put us on the same path, no my path is not headed towards hell.

i agree. john

(April 17, 2011 at 6:37 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 17, 2011 at 5:25 pm)JohnDG Wrote: God is nearly the religous idea of a perfect being, I am in no way perfect, nor strive to be. I was born into the lowest postion in life and I refused to stay there, and Im slowly but surely climbing my way to the top. Not everyone has this motive in life, just us who were cursed to be at the lowest position from the day we were born.

Who cursed you, it can't be the One you do not believe exist so who is it. Since you do not believe in anything supernatural how is it you believe you were even cursed. Maybe you believe luck cursed you but how can that be luck does not exist either, so how is it you believe that you were cursed when there is nothing that exist that can curse you. You must be as delusional as you believe christians to be, does that put us on the same path, no my path is not headed towards hell.

talk about twisting words

(April 17, 2011 at 6:37 pm)Godschild Wrote: [quote='JohnDG' pid='128556' dateline='1303075510']
God is nearly the religous idea of a perfect being, I am in no way perfect, nor strive to be. I was born into the lowest postion in life and I refused to stay there, and Im slowly but surely climbing my way to the top. Not everyone has this motive in life, just us who were cursed to be at the lowest position from the day we were born.

Quote:Who cursed you, it can't be the One you do not believe exist so who is it. Since you do not believe in anything supernatural how is it you believe you were even cursed. Maybe you believe luck cursed you but how can that be luck does not exist either, so how is it you believe that you were cursed when there is nothing that exist that can curse you. You must be as delusional as you believe christians to be, does that put us on the same path, no my path is not headed towards hell.

Since your going to epmhasize the word curse, yes I simply meant in the way of luck. Hence the reason I said being at the lowest position in life from birth.

(April 15, 2011 at 4:28 am)JohnDG Wrote: This will be my first thread and i want to limit the discussion to a certain criteria. This is not a debate on god so any thiest that chooses to post please do so in the same manner as the rest.

What i want to talk about are the true and actual uses of religion in a society, a government, and country.

I belive that religion isnt really meant to save people or their souls, but to help establish control over a people, limiting the amount of crime, violence, and freedom of thought. Also it can help to unite people by giving them a comman purpose in life to work for. It may also help run armies as zelous soldiers would fight longer and harder possibly till death, with belief of rewards in the afterlife.

These are just off the top of my head but what other applacable purposes of religion could there be?

Purpose... I don't know (you ask that when one is invented), but effects...
well, I'll start with the good ones:
- it may (depends on the religion) keep people from fucking with goats;
- it may influence people to try to do good (though the clergy is usually not involved here)
- you have a unity (though this has the disadvantage of causing hatred and despise towards those not being part of it)

the bad effects:
- it causes the "following the crowd" effect (people don't think for themselves, but are eyes and ears to what their priests/preachers tell, and expect them (the clergy) to think for them);
- it's very manipulative (well, once you have a unity, it's very manipulative; once you have the people following the crowd, they're on the clergy's hand);

Anyway, if all religions would cease to exist (religion = philosophy in which people believe in one or more god), then other philosophy would take its place. if the "religion" has priests/pastors/etc. the philosophies would get other titles (or they would be called "philosophers" or something, and there would be a great philosopher that would be admired as 100% trustworthy and most-wise, that people would fear to contradict or to believe that he may be wrong in something, because they would be called "idiots" by all the others that blindly believe him - because he is called by them "the wisest one", or something alike). And the bad effects of the "religion" would be preserved, and people would continue to believe in all kinds of fairytales, and there would be no end to them.

The purpose should be;
* To feel special and chosen
* Not having to consider your own mortality

All religions start as a means to explain the world, but over time it evolves into worship of the god/gods/spits/demons that they believe to be responsible for natural processes . Rulers use this newly found religion as a means of social control. This is what the Romans did to Christianity, the Persians did to Islam extra....

Religion is mans first attempt at explaining the world around him, at least that which he does not understand. When people were sick I suppose praying was better than doing nothing, but as time has progressed we have developed more intelligent applications to heal the sick, explain the tides, explain why the sun rises and sets, rain, earthquakes, stars etc.

The more we understand about the natural world the more watered down religion becomes.


This is the purpose of religion, now of course religion has been used for good and bad, most here would think the bad outweighs the good, but it was necessary for us to get to a point where we can sit on a computer and discuss why it is not needed. Evolution works slowly and in a social sense to me it is apparent that some feel they still need religion to deal with life and some do not, and as the Not's begin to number more I believe we will find ourselves in a society that is better off for it.

That's a particular view treating metaphysics and physics as the same subject darkblight, and not one commonly held by the religious. In fact it's a modern interpretation of the texts that has no actual basis in the texts.

(May 2, 2011 at 5:10 pm)darkblight Wrote: Religion is mans first attempt at explaining the world around him, at least that which he does not understand. When people were sick I suppose praying was better than doing nothing, but as time has progressed we have developed more intelligent applications to heal the sick, explain the tides, explain why the sun rises and sets, rain, earthquakes, stars etc.

The more we understand about the natural world the more watered down religion becomes.


This is the purpose of religion, now of course religion has been used for good and bad, most here would think the bad outweighs the good, but it was necessary for us to get to a point where we can sit on a computer and discuss why it is not needed. Evolution works slowly and in a social sense to me it is apparent that some feel they still need religion to deal with life and some do not, and as the Not's begin to number more I believe we will find ourselves in a society that is better off for it.

That is certainly not the purpose of the invention of gods. People were always interested in studying themselves the nature, and in giving 'scientific' (i.e. proven) explanations to what they see - there were people in antiquity interested in cosmology, for instance, and in medicine (practical methods of healing). In old times (or only in some 'religions') the clergy was also dealing with healing (i.e. medicine). In Judaism, the clergy was the one who was supposed to study the scriptures/laws deeply, and were acting as judges to the people (i.e. when people had a problem that is solvable by laws, they appealed to those who learn and study the laws - the priests). There might be even things like a religion to have started from a very wise philosopher, and people to add fairytales as the time was passing. As for the present, most if not all religions do not have as purpose the explanation of the physical world around. They are rather concerned with life after death.

Anyway, it is somewhat difficult for the 21st century man to imagine the beliefs, day-to-day life, philosophies of the people 4000 years ago or more.