(May 5, 2011 at 3:11 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Because if you believe in a creator, then THIS is what he created..

Aaaaaaaand what does this prove?

I think we are confusing terms here. When I say "Free Will" I mean an actual free libertarian will where man is just as likely to sin as not sin and he can freely choose to accept God's grace. Man does not have that. Rather man has a will, but it is a will that has been clouded by sin, he is actually described as being dead in sin. So he chooses to sin because he wants to sin, and he is unable to choose God without a renewing of his heart. In fact, even when he does good deeds it is not because of himself but rather because God has granted him common grace allowing him to overcome his sinful nature in order to do good deeds. So man is still responsible for his sin. Is that a bit clearer?

(May 5, 2011 at 4:36 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: I think we are confusing terms here. When I say "Free Will" I mean an actual free libertarian will where man is just as likely to sin as not sin and he can freely choose to accept God's grace. Man does not have that. Rather man has a will, but it is a will that has been clouded by sin, he is actually described as being dead in sin. So he chooses to sin because he wants to sin, and he is unable to choose God without a renewing of his heart. In fact, even when he does good deeds it is not because of himself but rather because God has granted him common grace allowing him to overcome his sinful nature in order to do good deeds. So man is still responsible for his sin. Is that a bit clearer?

Yes things are very clear to me now. You're a complete buffoon. Good luck on the path to eternal righteousnous

Haha, another page from the atheist playbook.

"Ahhh! You demonstrated your argument using logic! I hate logic! *insert ad hominem attack here* There now I feel better!"

watson Wrote:Aaaaaaaand what does this prove?

Absolutely nothing I suppose. Sorry for bothering. Continue about your normal routine.

I believe I shall.

Some of you christians have some STRANGE ideas of what you think being just is.

my two cents:

God is perfectly just, and yet he sentences the imperfect humans he created to infinite suffering in hell for finite sins. Clearly, a limited offense does not warrant unlimited punishment. God's sentencing of the imperfect humans to an eternity in hell for a mere mortal lifetime of sin is infinitely more unjust than this punishment. The absurd injustice of this infinite punishment is even greater when we consider that the ultimate source of human imperfection is the God who created them. A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is completely unjust.


This god of yours is impossible and you can keep him.

(May 5, 2011 at 7:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Haha, another page from the atheist playbook.

"Ahhh! You demonstrated your argument using logic! I hate logic! *insert ad hominem attack here* There now I feel better!"

Ever thought that atheists use this one so much because they are just banging their heads against a brick wall, against someone who does not address any points made and just continues to post nonsensical shit?

Yeah that's why, i've tried demonstrating why god isn't just but you just skip over any points made and come to your own retarded little conclusions.

I bid you farewell fucktard.

(May 6, 2011 at 3:48 am)Cinjin Cain Wrote: Some of you christians have some STRANGE ideas of what you think being just is.

my two cents:

God is perfectly just, and yet he sentences the imperfect humans he created to infinite suffering in hell for finite sins. Clearly, a limited offense does not warrant unlimited punishment. God's sentencing of the imperfect humans to an eternity in hell for a mere mortal lifetime of sin is infinitely more unjust than this punishment. The absurd injustice of this infinite punishment is even greater when we consider that the ultimate source of human imperfection is the God who created them. A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is completely unjust.


This god of yours is impossible and you can keep him.

Actually He keeps me and I'm sure glad He does. Let's get something straight here GOD'S creation was perfect, man (Adam) allowed sin to come into God's perfect creation and corrupt it, man is responsible for the imperfection in this world not God. We are reaping what man has sown, do not give me "why should others suffer because Adam sinned". If he had not the next man would have and he did Cain murdered his brother and all of mankind has sinned ever since. So God is not punishing you because He created you imperfect, that's just the way you and I were born.

What would you have God do, put you in hell for a time and then let you into His kingdom. You may not have repented and God is not going to allow unrepented sinners into heaven. How would that be justice for the ones who lived in faith in this world, God has to balance the scales between the faithful and the unfaithful equally. Whether you like it or not life is eternal and God will not distroy it, so zapping one out of existance is not an option, what would you have God do.

(May 6, 2011 at 4:33 am)Godschild Wrote: So God is not punishing you because He created you imperfect, that's just the way you and I were born.

Surely that is one massive fucking contradiction.