Both Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton are dishonest but Donald Trump is a trillion times worse.

(July 26, 2016 at 9:53 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Both Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton are dishonest but Donald Trump is a trillion times worse.

Politics is always dirty, but in this case only one between the two is a global threat. Hillary still regardless of what you might think, has NOT been convicted and considering Reagan and Iran/Contra and Bush's two failed wars that caused far more damage, and knowing the WW2 German scapegoating demagoguery of Trump, this is not the point in history to hold your breath like a child in a candy isle because your guy didn't win.

To think that such a selfish narcissist like Trump could balance a very thin diplomatic line globally would be to stupidly assume he could avoid what Kennedy avoided with the Cuban Missile Crisis. It isn't just that he is a lose cannon, no, and it isn't just that Trump preys of the same gullibility Bush got elected, no Trump is far more dangerous, even more dangerous than Bush Jr.

Nobody who praises the brutality of a dictator as if we should lower ourselves to that standard has any place in politics, let alone having control over the nuclear codes. Nobody who demonizes sitting judges and blacklists the press from events, should every be put in any public trust.

(July 26, 2016 at 1:51 am)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 12:47 am)wallym Wrote: It's definitely odd listening to them spin positivity immediately after saying how bad things are.  With Bernie voters and Black voters being mad ass hell, it's interesting to hear them try to go rosy and address their concerns at the same time.

THE RICH CONTROL MORE WEALTH TODAY THAN EVER BEFORE!!!  Also, thank you Obama for your work on the economy.
BLACK PEOPLE ARE BEING GUNNED DOWN IN THE STREETS!  THAT COULD BE OUR CHILDREN!  But we're not divided.
WE NEED TO BAN GUNS NOW!  But all this violence and doom and gloom from Trump doesn't match reality.

Point 1) The economy is objectively better for everyone including the 1% during the Obama presidency. So, yeah, thanks Obama.
Point 2) Nobody on that stage said we're not divided. They said instead of rhetoric that further divides us, we are better together. It is just childish to say that pointing out a way in which we are desperately failing and need to do better is somehow saying there is no division in America.
Pont 3) I didn't hear one person say we need to ban guns now or that violence isn't a problem in America.

Dude, if you want to go with feelings over facts like a theist, go for it. But don't try to pull that shit here of all places.

This was meant to be more of a 'feelings' observation about the interesting line they are trying to walk with the tone.  Not of interest to you and your highly analytical mind, but in terms of guessing how the american voter is going to respond, the 'feelings' are probably more relevant than facts.  

Leading up to the conventions we had terrorist attacks, cop shootings, and the other type of cop shootings.  Mass protests in the streets.  Racial inequality and gun violence were front and center again.  There was a definite "everything is going to shit" undercurrent among the more liberal parts of society I tend to observe.  

Then Michelle says "This right now, is the greatest country on earth."  And I'm looking around for Jeff Daniels.

Bernie says we need a revolution.  But that things have been going good for 8 years.  And 8 more years more or less like that would be good.  But overall things are disastrous as he went through his wealth inequality stats and rigged system spiel.  And he praised Obama for the economic turnaround, but didn't talk about Obama doing anything about the disastrous wealth inequality or the rigged system.  

It all felt off to me.  But maybe it was just me.

(July 26, 2016 at 10:41 am)wallym Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 1:51 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Point 1) The economy is objectively better for everyone including the 1% during the Obama presidency. So, yeah, thanks Obama.
Point 2) Nobody on that stage said we're not divided. They said instead of rhetoric that further divides us, we are better together. It is just childish to say that pointing out a way in which we are desperately failing and need to do better is somehow saying there is no division in America.
Pont 3) I didn't hear one person say we need to ban guns now or that violence isn't a problem in America.

Dude, if you want to go with feelings over facts like a theist, go for it. But don't try to pull that shit here of all places.

This was meant to be more of a 'feelings' observation about the interesting line they are trying to walk with the tone.  Not of interest to you and your highly analytical mind, but in terms of guessing how the american voter is going to respond, the 'feelings' are probably more relevant than facts.  

Leading up to the conventions we had terrorist attacks, cop shootings, and the other type of cop shootings.  Mass protests in the streets.  Racial inequality and gun violence were front and center again.  There was a definite "everything is going to shit" undercurrent among the more liberal parts of society I tend to observe.  

Then Michelle says "This right now, is the greatest country on earth."  And I'm looking around for Jeff Daniels.

Bernie says we need a revolution.  But that things have been going good for 8 years.  And 8 more years more or less like that would be good.  But overall things are disastrous as he went through his wealth inequality stats and rigged system spiel.  And he praised Obama for the economic turnaround, but didn't talk about Obama doing anything about the disastrous wealth inequality or the rigged system.  

It all felt off to me.  But maybe it was just me.

HOLY FUCK, 

Obama cant do shit because he has been dealing with a big enough majority of GOP obstructionism in both the House and Senate. That is the typical GOP tactic, sabotage and stand in the way then blame the person who is trying to get things done.

Same bullshit tactic Daffy Duck pulled in the cartoons between Foghorn and the Beagle. Create a needless problem, pit everyone against each other and sell a bullshit solution that is nothing more than benefiting the con artist pulling it.

I agree the system IS rigged, but not because the parties are the same, the system is held hostage by the GOP and that was started by Reagan and his deregulation. 

We DO need a revolution, and Bernie is part of the solution, but he wasn't the first to sound the alarm bells as a politician, the Occupy movement started even before Obama won his first election. What we don't need is to allow the GOP and Trump to divide us. What we don't need is to allow his hate and fear and WW2 German scapegoating politics to win selling hate and fear.

(July 26, 2016 at 10:57 am)Brian37 Wrote: HOLY FUCK, 

Obama cant do shit because he has been dealing with a big enough majority of GOP obstructionism in both the House and Senate. That is the typical GOP tactic, sabotage and stand in the way then blame the person who is trying to get things done.

Seems weird to make people try to connect those dots to that conclusion.  Especially after the primaries in which Sanders implied Hillary and Obama were both 'paid for' as well.  
I remember Hillary saying "Obama accepted money too.  Is he paid for?"  And Bernie replying by asking how many Wall Street people ended up in jail.

Hey, when the Democrats had the majority in both houses, did they do anything about gun reform? From their recent toddler-esque tantrums you'd think that they were very concerned with stopping atrocities such as the Orlando shooting. But they had their chance and failed. Yeah...the Democrats don't really do much either.

(July 26, 2016 at 11:08 am)wallym Wrote:

(July 26, 2016 at 10:57 am)Brian37 Wrote: HOLY FUCK, 

Obama cant do shit because he has been dealing with a big enough majority of GOP obstructionism in both the House and Senate. That is the typical GOP tactic, sabotage and stand in the way then blame the person who is trying to get things done.

Seems weird to make people try to connect those dots to that conclusion.  Especially after the primaries in which Sanders implied Hillary and Obama were both 'paid for' as well.  
I remember Hillary saying "Obama accepted money too.  Is he paid for?"  And Bernie replying by asking how many Wall Street people ended up in jail.

Name me any election primary in our nation's history where words aren't exchanged even within the same party. Even Jefferson and Adams had words between them running for office. 

I think you are stupidly seeking a perfect utopia where that does not happen. 

No, not "paid for" but more like forced to compromise because the GOP controls the narrative. 

The pieces are set now, and dwelling on all the what ifs is bullshit at this point. I think it is foolish to think Trump isn't dangerous. And now is not the time to play a game of chicken because you didn't get everything you wanted.

The last asshole who used political demagoguery and scapegoating and hyper nationalism to get votes started WW2 at the cost of 50 million lives worldwide. It isn't  falsely employing Godwin's law in this case, it applies to Trump. He's scapegoated all sorts of nationalities and races on top of attacking sitting judges with no record of suspicion and blacklisted the press from his events on top of praising the brutality of Saddam. 

This dangerous vile rhetoric is poison to western political pluralism. You can argue that he himself can't become a dictator over night, but the tone he sets if taken by EITHER party, is dangerous tone which can erode and topple our western value of checks on power.

Even Bernie himself has said that Hillary will still be 1,000 times better than Trump. I am not going to play chicken with a despot wannabe like Trump. Our national and global stability is at stake.

I sort of felt bad for Bernie last night, but I do recognize how commendable he is acting by not only endorsing Hillary, but going the extra mile to recognize the degree with which his supporters are unhappy with his loss. From what I gathered he really cares for this country and it's people, and would rather swallow his pride than see the country go to shit under Trump. Now he just has to wrestle the monster he created into submission.

I could see the compromise and the "great coming together" of their platforms as a ruse on Hillary's part. It was Bernie up there saying it, but I think he believes is, at least tentatively.

Looks like it's going to be an interesting evening. There's going to be a full role call and the Bernie supporters are going to be heard. One Bernie delegate was interviewed. When asked if she would support Hilary, she gave a firm, no. Politics are too corrupt. I used to think our votes actually counted. But after watching both conventions and the recent DNC email controversy, both Trump and Sanders were right, the system is rigged in favor of the party elitists.

It took these two bits of theater for you to come to that realization?