Another thing, why would you consider talking like a regular person as a good quality for president? I want a president that talks like, you know, a president. I'd prefer that the person that will be traveling around the world as an ambassador for me and my country can speak more eloquently than a fourth grader.

And lol at Trump building stuff. He's ruined as much as he's built, needed daddy's money and influence to do so, and he did it by fucking over the businesses and people he dealt with. Being sued 3,200 times is not a quality I want in a president, and I find it incredibly ironic that people think that someone that got where he was by screwing the little guy will have their interests at heart.

(July 27, 2016 at 6:10 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Another thing, why would you consider talking like a regular person as a good quality for president?  I want a president that talks like, you know, a president.  I'd prefer that the person that will be traveling around the world as an ambassador for me and my country can speak more eloquently than a fourth grader.

And lol at Trump building stuff.  He's ruined as much as he's built, needed daddy's money and influence to do so, and he did it by fucking over the businesses and people he dealt with.  Being sued 3,200 times is not a quality I want in a president, and I find it incredibly ironic that people think that someone that got where he was by screwing the little guy will have their interests at heart.

Then you wouldn't want a president who feels emboldened to give a spontaneous neck rub to the German chancellor?  You might have a lot of hangups.  

(July 27, 2016 at 5:55 pm)Aroura Wrote: But that is the job of a GOOD politician. To try and see how what they say and do affect the world around them, and tailor it so that the effects they have are positive, or at least change things in a way they desire. That is literally THEIR JOB.

Statesmanship includes public speaking, yes. That is part of the job. Most politicians think it's the whole job, but its not. The role of the executive branch also includes effectively enforcing the law, implementing policies, and managing government programs. That doesn't happen by talking from a podium. It happens by making decisions, giving clear directions, hiring the right people, and supervising performance. In the 24-hour news cycle we've been trained to focus on the talk. OMG Senator X said what!?!. OMG, did you hear that clip from Governor Y!?! How insensitive. How telling.

It's all chatter. I think we need a kind of Freakanomics approach. Let's start by assuming everything we think we know is distorted by ideology and look at the real data, try different approaches, and actually see what works, rather than what lines who's pocket. But we cannot have those conversations if people are going to nit-pik over every word for so-called code words and dog-whistles. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I guess my point isn't really about Trump, his qualifications or lack thereof. Instead its about focusing too much on how politicians say things rather than the substance of what they are saying. That's what I think was the idea behind Ace's article. Trump is just an excuse to have that conversation.

(July 27, 2016 at 5:59 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Quite the opposite. I tend libertarian and Trump is about as far from that as can be. If anything he's challenged many of my assumptions. I've had to go back rethink my understand of Adam's "Wealth of Nations". I've had to reconsider what I'd been taught about immigration history. For quite some time, I've been questioning the artificial ideological divides that don't do anything but support and encourage corruption and cronyism. There are no Democrats or Republicans anymore. We've been living under a one-party system of Insiders. Trump supporters know that. Bernie supporters know it, too.

Yes, we live in a country governed by Washington insiders. Why anyone would think a con man like Trump is the remedy for that is beyond me, though.

(July 27, 2016 at 6:02 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 5:42 pm)wallym Wrote: This is exactly the kind of thing I think Chad was posting about.  Trump is out there just letting fly in those press conferences.  If he says the wrong state by mistake, he just says "oops, I meant virginia."?  Hillary won't make a mistake like that.  But I imagine it's because she hasn't said anything in years that hasn't been run through a couple focus groups first.  At least that's how I imagine the perception is for a lot of people.

'Just letting fly'?  That's the plus, seriously?

Boru

It's just a very different way of doing it.  It's one of my favorite things about Joe Biden.  I think he sped up gay marriage by 2 years because he just said what he was thinking instead of following Obama's carefully constructed script.

(July 27, 2016 at 6:21 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 5:55 pm)Aroura Wrote: But that is the job of a GOOD politician. To try and see how what they say and do affect the world around them, and tailor it so that the effects they have are positive, or at least change things in a way they desire. That is literally THEIR JOB.

Statesmanship includes public speaking, yes. That is part of the job. Most politicians think it's the whole job, but its not. The role of the executive branch also includes effectively enforcing the law, implementing policies, and managing government programs. That doesn't happen by talking from a podium. It happens by making decisions, giving clear directions, hiring the right people, and supervising performance. In the 24-hour news cycle we've been trained to focus on the talk. OMG Senator X said what!?!. OMG, did you hear that clip from Governor Y!?! How insensitive. How telling.

It's all chatter. I think we need a kind of Freakanomics approach. Let's start by assuming everything we think we know is distorted by ideology and look at the real data, try different approaches, and actually see what works, rather than what lines who's pocket. But we cannot have those conversations if people are going to nit-pik over every word for so-called code words and dog-whistles. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Trump has massive impulse control problems.  Not just with speaking, but that is a place we can clearly see it on a regular basis.

How will he be good at any of the things you mentioned?  Impulsively making a decision, or enforcing a law he impulsively implimented?  Management???  ha!

I agree all the pocket lining, in crowd stuff is very bad, but Trump's throw it all to the wind and do whatever he likes approach is not actually better.

(July 27, 2016 at 6:22 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 5:59 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Quite the opposite. I tend libertarian and Trump is about as far from that as can be. If anything he's challenged many of my assumptions. I've had to go back rethink my understand of Adam's "Wealth of Nations". I've had to reconsider what I'd been taught about immigration history. For quite some time, I've been questioning the artificial ideological divides that don't do anything but support and encourage corruption and cronyism. There are no Democrats or Republicans anymore. We've been living under a one-party system of Insiders. Trump supporters know that. Bernie supporters know it, too.

Yes, we live in a country governed by Washington insiders.  Why anyone would think a con man like Trump is the remedy for that is beyond me, though.

EXACTLY!!!

(July 27, 2016 at 6:22 pm)wallym Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 6:02 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: 'Just letting fly'?  That's the plus, seriously?

Boru

It's just a very different way of doing it.  It's one of my favorite things about Joe Biden.  I think he sped up gay marriage by 2 years because he just said what he was thinking instead of following Obama's carefully constructed script.

But notice that Trump never says anything substantive ever.  It is just bragging and pissing contest.  "So and so is a bad thing."  "I'm the best."  Nothing more.

You're all just mad because Trumps gonna win and you know it.

(July 27, 2016 at 6:26 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 6:22 pm)wallym Wrote: It's just a very different way of doing it.  It's one of my favorite things about Joe Biden.  I think he sped up gay marriage by 2 years because he just said what he was thinking instead of following Obama's carefully constructed script.

But notice that Trump never says anything substantive ever.  It is just bragging and pissing contest.  "So and so is a bad thing."  "I'm the best."  Nothing more.

Definitely fair criticism. I think, unfortunately, the reason, is that he has no in depth answers for any of these problems.  He's just got a bunch of things he wants to do and maybe a very high level outline of how he thinks he might do it.

But in general, not many people are giving in depth answers off the cuff.  Bill Clinton was amazing at it.  Chris Christie is really good at it.  But you've got to have a persona that can get you out of trouble if you screw up while doing it on top of just being able to do it to begin with.