My biggest question is: Is it true that narcissists truly have no emotion empathy? They can coldly and intellectually put themselves in another's shoes but they will have no emotional response when they do?

I am not sure how I can believe this. Not just because it is indeed on a continuum but also because this implies that you don't get people with NPD who are emotionally empathetic.

So is it really true that an essential part of a diagnosis of Narcissism is that Narcissists have no emotional empathy at all and they can only merely behave as if they do?

(August 20, 2016 at 12:04 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: My biggest question is: Is it true that narcissists truly have no emotion empathy? They can coldly and intellectually put themselves in another's shoes but they will have no emotional response when they do?

That isn't true in my experience.

(August 20, 2016 at 12:04 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I am not sure how I can believe this. Not just because it is indeed on a continuum but also because this implies that you don't get people with NPD who are emotionally empathetic.  

So is it really true that an essential part of a diagnosis of Narcissism is that Narcissists have no emotional empathy at all and they can only merely behave as if they do?

I'll look again but I don't remember reading that being emphasized at all.

Here again are the DSM criteria for recognizing narcissism which I posted under hide tags at the end of my first tl;dr post in this thread, but numbered this time for easier reference:

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• 1-Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
  
  
• 2-Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
  
  
• 3-Exaggerating your achievements and talents
  
  
• 4-Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
  
  
• 5-Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
  
  
• 6-Requiring constant admiration
  
  
• 7-Having a sense of entitlement
  
  
• 8-Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
  
  
• 9-Taking advantage of others to get what you want
  
  
• 10-Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
  
  
• 11-Being envious of others and believing others envy you
  
  
• 12-Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner
  
  
  
  None of them directly address your question, but #10 comes closest.  You might interpret "an inability to recognize the needs and feelings of others" as meaning lacking the basic empathic machinery but it could also mean they just consistently aren't focussed on that.  The other half of #10, "or unwillingness to" supports that interpretation.  I think it is saying narcissists are either habitually unfocussed on the needs and feelings of others -or- they are actually motivated to ignore those things.That access to empathy is entirely missing would be a different disorder.

(August 20, 2016 at 12:07 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(August 20, 2016 at 12:04 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: My biggest question is: Is it true that narcissists truly have no emotion empathy? They can coldly and intellectually put themselves in another's shoes but they will have no emotional response when they do?

That isn't true in my experience.

Nor in mine.  

Empathy is suppressed, sometimes intentionally as a part of the projection (it might be perceived as weakness and invite ridicule).  Empathy is unnoticed or unconsidered because you're too busy "doing you".  It's still present...it's just difficult to employ it and you don't always give it the time, frankly..at some point you're out of practice..so there's that.  

When people start to really grind away with negative steroetypes and subtle misunderstandings of the disorder..I wait until they've said a mountain of shitty shit...and then casually drop into the conversation that...internally, my heart was breaking in two as I watched the effect of my actions play out in others..it was the most painful experience of my entire life, I knew something was wrong but didn;t know how to stop it.  Privately, you ask yourself questions like "Why did I say or do that, I had no reason and it doesn't even matter -to me-....now it;s just another half truth or lie I have to maintain...and the list is getting long, wtf?".  Those realizations always came after the fact, though, "Doing me" was reflexive, almost on autopilot by the time I was forced into treatment. I lost my squad, I lost my job, and as such it then became an -obvious- disorder.

Manipulative NPDish jab...sure....but those people are being abject assholes...so I don;t care how it might hurt their feelings to juxtapose that admission of mine with their own statements about how inhuman people with NPD are.

9 and 10 together seems to make it seem that way.

(August 20, 2016 at 12:23 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: 9 and 10 together seems to make it seem that way.

But why would taking advantage of others speak to a lack of empathy?  Setting aside empathy or acting on something else would do the job.  I think you're conflating separate things.

(August 20, 2016 at 6:31 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote:

Wow. If I looked like that I'd be a narcissist too!

If you looked like that, you wouldn't be the only one who would love yourself.

(August 20, 2016 at 12:27 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(August 20, 2016 at 12:23 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: 9 and 10 together seems to make it seem that way.

But why would taking advantage of others speak to a lack of empathy?  Setting aside empathy or acting on something else would do the job.  I think you're conflating separate things.

I agree it doesn't imply a lack of empathy at all. As I said I don't believe that narcissists have no empathy so I think it's a common misunderstanding. I think 9 and 10 make it seem that way but only if we make a hasty generalisation. I simply mean that I can understand why people jump to that false conclusion.

(August 20, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Atheist_BG Wrote:

(August 20, 2016 at 6:31 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote:

Wow. If I looked like that I'd be a narcissist too!

If you looked like that, you wouldn't be the only one who would love yourself.

I do love myself and my mouth used to be able to reach to pleasurable places.

I'm not joking.

Rhythm Wrote:internally, my heart was breaking in two as I watched the effect of my actions play out in others..it was the most painful experience of my entire life, I knew something was wrong but didn;t know how to stop it.

My arguments in my life and self-destructive behavior and outbursts is thwart with this exact feeling. The telling myself to "STOP!" over and over in my head.