| Poll: Does free will exist? This poll is closed. |
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| No, I'm a hard determinist. | 8 | 53.33% | |
| Yes, I'm a compatibilist. | 7 | 46.67% | |
| Total | 15 vote(s) | 100% | |
| * You voted for this item. | [Show Results] |
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Free Will
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Determinism = you fell down a cliff
Fatalism = you are going to die Free will = not if you kungfu roll correctly
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting, I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder  (August 21, 2016 at 2:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote:(August 21, 2016 at 1:59 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Determinism = Everything is predetermined. Determinism - the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions. Fatalism = the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable. You can't circumvent the fact that fatalism accurately describes the way the world functions. A happens. B follows. C follows. D follows. Wait, E is random? So what? E follows. And you've got nothing to do with it. You can't control it. It's either random or it follows from D. Fatalism is true and it's not what you think it is. Events are indeed predetermined and inevitable. Predetermined because we live in a cause-effect universe, and inevitable because you can't break causation. (August 21, 2016 at 2:20 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Determinism = you fell down a cliff Wrong. Determinism = you are falling down a cliff and you are either going to die or live. Fatalism = There's nothing you can do about it. What will have happened will happen no matter what. Your own actions in that instance are predetermined. You have no control over the situation. Free will = the illusion of control as you fall, itself slipping away as terror slips in.
Determinism = you are in a river
Fatalism = you are going to die and end up in the ocean where the fish will eat you. Free will = *splish, splash, splish, splash* "That was so freshing, time for lunch!" *get's out of river*
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting, I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder (August 21, 2016 at 2:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Delicious irony, though I'm sure it will be lost on you EP...is that determinism gives us a means to predict an uncertain future...whereas fatalism leaves us no means to predict a certain future. That's not true. You seem to fail to recognize the fact that you yourself, and even your thoughts, are parts of the causal chain binding everything in the universe, as well. That means humans either will or won't predict some events, but that fact itself is already predetermined. (August 21, 2016 at 2:26 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Determinism = you are in a river Ok, you can fuck off with your trolling now. (August 21, 2016 at 2:22 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:(August 21, 2016 at 2:20 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Determinism = you fell down a cliff This is fun =) If one is in free fall, there is little one can choose from other than trying to deflect momentum sideways and not tense up when you hit the ground. If one is rotating, one can ball up to increase rotation or spread out to decrease rotation. If two are falling down a steep slope, the trained person would have their wits about them and more choices in the moment than the untrained person who panics.
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting, I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder RE: Free Will
August 21, 2016 at 2:35 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2016 at 2:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Counting the hits, ignoring the misses. There are shared attributes to a deterministic or fatalistic world. That doesn;t mean that they;re the same thing. Nor does it mean that you;ve accurately described those shared attributes....which you haven't.
When you show that you're willing to/capable of having a discussion, I'll put in more time. If it's just going to be a litany of "nuh-uh", frameshifting, and reassertion...I don't care enough to continue. I've already explained to you, in needling detail, why you are flat out wrong. You can respond to that, or come up with some other half baked shit to avoid it. You do you, have fun, peace out.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(August 21, 2016 at 2:27 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:(August 21, 2016 at 2:26 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Determinism = you are in a river Sorry, are you a little sensitive today and need an internet break?
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting, I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder  Free Will
August 21, 2016 at 8:24 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2016 at 8:26 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(August 21, 2016 at 6:04 am)Gemini Wrote:(August 20, 2016 at 11:38 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: This free will thread isn't phenomenologically sexy enough. Oh, man...that scene. *attempts to get self under control* I made a Buffy vid to that scene featuring a Nine Inch Nails song that I still pat myself on the back for to this day. For some reason that scene always felt like a revisitation of the scene between them at the end of "Fool For love", but with them finally losing the battle with their inhibitions. Both scenes are equally powerful, but for completely different reasons. IMHO, of course. [emoji6] P.s., it's nice to have someone to talk "Buffy" with. [emoji41]
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken. |
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