(October 24, 2016 at 5:52 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 5:34 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Not necessarily. Eternal means without beginning or end; infinite means limitless in quantity, an infinite something can be temporally finite in the past.

Hah! Thanks fro the intelligence. I even have the same thing happening in my metaversal model: The original Infinite substance quantum fluctuates/breaks symmetry creating a planar cavitational wavefront that leaves a plane of equal sized voided spheres in it's wake. This creates a plane of an infinite number of spheres (spaces/universe) all at the same instant in time. The metaversal plane is infinite in the horizontal but finite in the vertical. A limited infinity.

Here's where it gets even more nuanced: The wave-front keeps going in one direction leaving further planes of universes under the previous and the wave front will never stop traveling and cavitating universes through the original infinite mass body. The metaverse had a beginning in time, but it does not have an end. A limited eternity.

(October 24, 2016 at 5:56 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I'd say time had a starting point but it didn't "begin" as such because there was nothing before it for it to begin from. A first point in time is subtly different to a beginning, I reckon.

ETA: In a way... there is the first point in time and then it begins.

(October 24, 2016 at 5:57 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 5:52 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Hah! Thanks for the intelligence. I even have the same thing happening in my metaversal model: The original Infinite substance quantum fluctuates/breaks symmetry creating a planar cavitational wavefront that leaves a plane of equal sized voided spheres in it's wake. This creates a plane of an infinite number of spheres (spaces/universe) all at the same instant in time. The metaversal plane is infinite in the horizontal but finite in the vertical. A limited infinity.

Here's where it gets even more nuanced: The wave-front keeps going in one direction leaving further planes of universes under the previous and the wave front will never stop traveling and cavitating universes through the original infinite mass body. The metaverse had a beginning in time, but it does not have an end. A limited eternity.

Sorry did I trigger some kind of insecurity?

(October 24, 2016 at 6:01 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I approve of your scare quotes.

(October 24, 2016 at 6:01 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 5:57 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Sorry did I trigger some kind of insecurity?

No.  Whatever gave you that idea?

(October 24, 2016 at 6:03 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 6:01 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: No.  Whatever gave you that idea?

The going off on whatever you're talking about mostly.

(October 24, 2016 at 5:21 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 5:11 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I agree with theists who say "something can't come from nothing" you know
but then they're like "and it has a mind and it created the universe and it's God!"
I'm like "nope wtf where did that bullshit come from?"

It's like they have a metaphysical insight but it makes their brain explode and causes religious psychosis
[emoji23]

I can think of only 3 possible beginning states: Nothing, finite something, or infinite something. Can you think of anymore?

(October 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 11:46 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: Gravity is material, it is an effect of the nature of space time. Mathematics is a system for describing material items and events. Logic is a system of thinking, which is a property of the material brain, and the brain alone.

None of those things are immaterial, nothing that humanity has ever observed is immaterial.

Given that experience is our only interface with reality, and that everything we use to describe reality consists of ideas and nothing other than ideas, you've made an assertion which I do not believe you can demonstrate to be true.