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RE: A serious question for theists
November 7, 2016 at 1:49 pm
(November 7, 2016 at 11:37 am)Drich Wrote: (November 7, 2016 at 11:07 am)dyresand Wrote: I don't know a sacrifice seems kinda shitty when a thing called a apology could work just as well
or i don't know removing the curse he put on humans. Because your god does not love us enough
to even do that.
maybe you should start by defining love. It seems you have a perverse version of the word when you use it.
Love is a deep feeling of affection something which the bible god does not have for human beings.
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RE: A serious question for theists
November 7, 2016 at 2:11 pm
(November 7, 2016 at 12:10 pm)alpha male Wrote: (November 5, 2016 at 6:43 pm)dyresand Wrote: How do you exactly know if God/Jesus even loves you? I don't exactly know. That's why it's called a faith.
How would I go about discerning the difference between faith, and gullibility?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: A serious question for theists
November 7, 2016 at 2:16 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2016 at 2:16 pm by Simon Moon.)
(November 6, 2016 at 4:22 pm)Lek Wrote: (November 5, 2016 at 6:43 pm)dyresand Wrote: How do you exactly know if God/Jesus even loves you?
The bible only supports god loving a select few people so yeah you can't exactly use it.
Your whole premise is wrong. The bible doesn't say he loves only a select few. It he says that he loved the world so much that he gave his son to take on the wrath of sin for the whole world.
Why couldn't god have just forgiven humanity for the "wrath of sin" instead of using substitutionary atonement?
After all, it is his universe and his rules. Why the need of a sacrifice?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: A serious question for theists
November 7, 2016 at 3:19 pm
(November 7, 2016 at 1:47 pm)dyresand Wrote: (November 7, 2016 at 12:10 pm)alpha male Wrote: I don't exactly know. That's why it's called a faith.
Um... so you just roll the dice on whether or not god loves you then... gor it.
"Don't exactly know" isn't equivalent to a random dice roll.
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RE: A serious question for theists
November 7, 2016 at 4:51 pm
(November 7, 2016 at 1:49 pm)dyresand Wrote: (November 7, 2016 at 11:37 am)Drich Wrote: maybe you should start by defining love. It seems you have a perverse version of the word when you use it.
Love is a deep feeling of affection something which the bible god does not have for human beings.
You didn't look up the 4 forms of love did you?
The greeks have 4 different words that we translate into the word love. In essence this means the greeks subdivided the different aspects of the word love and gave it it's own word and specific meaning.
The first word is Storge' It means they type of love held between a parent and child. The Eros which is the feeling or passion lovers share, Phila which is the love between good friends and then there is Agape' which is unique to God. It is a respect based love. Kind of hard to understand unless you experienced it. agape in not a feeling it is honor based duty or even obligation. It kind like dying for your buddy for putting him in a bad spot he made worse.
Why is this important? Because when the bible says God is love it doesn't have anything to do with what you understand the word love to mean.
It is a love or an understanding of love you have never been taught to be aware of. So then looking for it in an emotional state, or looking for it by trying to measure emotion will leave you empty. Again unless you take God up on his offer of atonement you will never experience the Agape offered by God nor will you get to experience the Phila or storge'
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RE: A serious question for theists
November 7, 2016 at 6:53 pm
(November 7, 2016 at 3:19 pm)alpha male Wrote: (November 7, 2016 at 1:47 pm)dyresand Wrote: Um... so you just roll the dice on whether or not god loves you then... gor it.
"Don't exactly know" isn't equivalent to a random dice roll.
It pretty much is if you the believe think god cares about you and when you get to heaven and he is not a nice person not caring not loving etc
rather that god just made us out of his/her/it boredom.
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RE: A serious question for theists
November 7, 2016 at 6:57 pm
(November 6, 2016 at 4:22 pm)Lek Wrote: (November 5, 2016 at 6:43 pm)dyresand Wrote: How do you exactly know if God/Jesus even loves you?
The bible only supports god loving a select few people so yeah you can't exactly use it.
Your whole premise is wrong. The bible doesn't say he loves only a select few. It he says that he loved the world so much that he gave his son to take on the wrath of sin for the whole world.
Actually unsurprisingly the Bible says both:
skepticsannotatedbible.com Wrote:131. Does God love everyone?
Yes, God is love and he loves everyone.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 1 John 4:8
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 1 John 4:16
No, God hates some people.
He hates entire nations sometimes.
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. Leviticus 20:23
He hates all workers of iniquity.
Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5
He hates wicked people and those who love violence.
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings. Hosea 9:15
To God the wicked and his wickedness are hateful alike. Wisdom 14:9
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Psalm 11:5
He hates false witnesses and busibodies.
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. Proverbs 6:16, 19
And (for some strange reason) he hates Esau.
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Malachi 1:3
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Romans 9:13
The Bible is indeed highly contradictory.
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RE: A serious question for theists
November 8, 2016 at 9:13 am
(November 7, 2016 at 6:53 pm)dyresand Wrote: (November 7, 2016 at 3:19 pm)alpha male Wrote: "Don't exactly know" isn't equivalent to a random dice roll.
It pretty much is if you the believe think god cares about you and when you get to heaven and he is not a nice person not caring not loving etc
rather that god just made us out of his/her/it boredom.
In that case...so what? My belief that God loves me is comforting to me in this life, and nothing I could do or believe would matter for the next.
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RE: A serious question for theists
November 8, 2016 at 10:20 am
Not a serious question after all.
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RE: A serious question for theists
November 8, 2016 at 10:50 am
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2016 at 10:54 am by The Grand Nudger.)
@The OP
The feeling itself, that they have, that's real regardless of whether or not the subject is accurate or existent. It might be relevant in a real relationship, with an actual person...if there were a disparity between what a person felt about how someone felt toward them and how that person actually did feel about them. If, for example, they felt that a person loved them when...in point of fact...that person hated them. It's easy to see how that would lead to tears and misery. However, since god isn;t -doing- anything to these people regardless, it's not much of an issue from that front.
Though, I would say, that the hint of an issue expresses itself in alphas comments above, which, while being a perfectly legitimate answer to your question...is the sort of thing that might -be- a problem if he stopped believing in the god that loved him. That somehow, someway, things devolve to some sort of meaninglessness and nihilism if god didn't love him.
Thing is, people who fall away from the one belief, generally find other justifications for meaning in this life, or any next life they might believe in. They -usually- have them in mind concurrently with whatever meaning they ascribe to all of this by relation to god or gods love....such that they don't, upon waking up one day and finding that they no longer believe, run out and murder someone because "fuck it, nothing i do or believe matters to this or the next". I;m sure there;s always going to be that one nutball, the exception that proves the rule....but I'm not too worried about that guy. He's probably already in a padded cell somewhere, you can't even hide that kind of crazy with religion.
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