Quote:We have the power and responsibility to make America what we want it to be.

He's right..... and we just turned it into a shithole....or at least the electoral college did.

(November 10, 2016 at 3:02 pm)Emzap Wrote: I don't think we need to have another discussion on this thread about abortion.

because deep down you know what your pastor has fed you is a pack of lies.

Tell me Emzap, are you worried what'll happen when the child sex abuse scandal your church has currently buried boils over? Are you worried about when your leaders are revealed to be bunch of money grubbing snake oil salesmen out to steal your money? Are you worried about that moment that will come when you realise your whole worldview is built on nothing more than a pack of bronze age lies?

(November 10, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote: Emzap post #366

Emzap Wrote:Like I said, Trump wouldn't have been my first choice, but Hilary was my last. It was the decision of the people, so now it is our civic duty to respect the authority in place. This doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with everything he does or stands for, but it means treating him like a human being who has been chosen as a leader. People make up society. We are the people. We have the power and responsibility to make America what we want it to be. We don't need to rely on the government to tell us how to act.

Emzap post#351

Emzap Wrote:Yesterday one of my friends shared this quote with me, "If your eschatology is correct then the thing you should be feeling about the election is curiosity." I believe that no matter what happens with this country, it is in God's hands. All authority is in place because God has put him/her there. But God does allow and use suffering. We grow the most not in the easy times but in the hard times. I don't know whats going to happen with Trump as president. But no matter what happens, I find hope not in this Earth, but in Christ Jesus, and in my eternal home in Heaven with Him.

Emzap, I apologize if I'm being thick, but could you please clarify how "we  have the power and responsibility to make America what we want it to be"; yet, according to the above post, "all authority is in place because God has put him or her there".  Thanks, sir.

These ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Trump is in authority, and he deserves our respect. It didn't thwart God's plan. It didn't surprise God. But respect doesn't mean we agree with him. You can respect someone with a different viewpoint. You don't have to hate everyone who disagrees with you, just like I don't hate you guys. The other side of it is our responsibility and duty to America. Lets love each other. Lets stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves. We can do great things for this country, apart from what the government controls. Lets be generous, and look out for one another. Help each other when someone's down. Little acts of kindness go a long way.

(November 10, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Emzap Wrote: Trump is in authority, and he deserves our respect.

Why?

Is respect on discount these days? Or do you by any chance go by the biblical quote of everyone in authority is there because god wills it? If so, tell me why Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot aren't deserving of the same kind of respect.

(November 10, 2016 at 6:50 pm)Tazzycorn Wrote:

(November 10, 2016 at 3:02 pm)Emzap Wrote: I don't think we need to have another discussion on this thread about abortion.

because deep down you know what your pastor has fed you is a pack of lies.

Tell me Emzap, are you worried what'll happen when the child sex abuse scandal your church has currently buried boils over? Are you worried about when your leaders are revealed to be bunch of money grubbing snake oil salesmen out to steal your money? Are you worried about that moment that will come when you realise your whole worldview is built on nothing more than a pack of bronze age lies?

No, its because if you look back, there are about 10 pages dedicated to discussing abortion. We disagree. We will continue to disagree no matter how much we defend our own sides. 

I know that some Christians and especially 'so called Christians' use God as an excuse and a cover to do horrible things. I know that this is probably true of some churches, and some church leaders. Sin affects all of humankind. Christians aren't exempt. We aren't perfect people, as much as some claim to be. But we realize our brokenness and need for forgiveness and for a savior, Jesus Christ. Knowing Him and believing in Him doesn't make us perfect. The struggle with sin won't end until we reach Heaven. And then there are those who masquerade around churches who are really not Christians. They do horrible things with no conscience against it. It happens in churches, and that breaks my heart. Scandal happens in schools, in the government, in families, and in just about every aspect of society. What a broken world we live in.. But that doesn't change what I believe about God. My hope is build on nothing less than Jesus' blood and His righteousness.

Emzap, how ya holding up under the barrage?

Hang in there kid. In my book you've already made it to my top 5 theist list.

(November 10, 2016 at 9:14 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 10, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Emzap Wrote: Trump is in authority, and he deserves our respect.

Why?

Is respect on discount these days? Or do you by any chance go by the biblical quote of everyone in authority is there because god wills it? If so, tell me why Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot aren't deserving of the same kind of respect.

I'd say when they were in power they did deserve the respect of the people they were ruling over. That doesn't mean we agree with them. It doesn't mean we obey them if they tell us to do something outright wrong. But our attitude towards them should be that of respect. Just like that teacher growing up that you couldn't stand, you still didn't disobey them when they told you to quiet down and listen, or call them by their first name. You don't like them, but you respect their position.

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(November 10, 2016 at 9:29 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Emzap, how ya holding up under the barrage?

Hang in there kid. In my book you've already made it to my top 5 theist list.

Hey, thanks! I'm holding up.

(November 10, 2016 at 9:31 pm)Emzap Wrote: I'd say when they were in power they did deserve the respect of the people they were ruling over. That doesn't mean we agree with them. It doesn't mean we obey them if they tell us to do something outright wrong. But our attitude towards them should be that of respect. Just like that teacher growing up that you couldn't stand, you still didn't disobey them when they told you to quiet down and listen, or call them by their first name. You don't like them, but you respect their position.

I debate all of that. Respect is earned. It's not an automated reaction, and it shouldn't be. I never respected any position. I only respect people earning my respect. Actions and values are talking, not a position. That goes for teachers as well as heads of state or any given person on the streets.

(November 10, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Emzap Wrote: Trump is in authority, and he deserves our respect.

Could not disagree more strongly. That man has done absolutely nothing to deserve our respect. The office deserves respect, really it deserves a lot more respect than to bestow it on one such as Trump. But in a democracy one has sometimes got to concede power to those with whom one does not agree. Such a shame to be stuck here in DumbTrumpistan.

(November 10, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Emzap Wrote: It didn't thwart God's plan. It didn't surprise God. But respect doesn't mean we agree with him. You can respect someone with a different viewpoint.

I can't. He's all yours.

(November 10, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Emzap Wrote: You don't have to hate everyone who disagrees with you, just like I don't hate you guys. The other side of it is our responsibility and duty to America.

Not a patriot. I acknowledge no allegiance to the accident of geographical location of my birth. Doesn't mean I don't deal with neighbors in a neighborly way.

(November 10, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Emzap Wrote: Lets love each other.

The heart wants and loves what the heart wants and loves. Not my department.

(November 10, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Emzap Wrote: Lets stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves.

That would require standing up to Trump.

(November 10, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Emzap Wrote: We can do great things for this country, apart from what the government controls. Lets be generous, and look out for one another. Help each other when someone's down. Little acts of kindness go a long way.

That would fall under my neighborly treatment of neighbors policy. But to really stand up for some of us, it will be necessary to oppose Trump. He is not a friend.

Emzap Wrote:These ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Trump is in authority, and he deserves our respect. It didn't thwart God's plan. It didn't surprise God. But respect doesn't mean we agree with him. You can respect someone with a different viewpoint. You don't have to hate everyone who disagrees with you, just like I don't hate you guys. The other side of it is our responsibility and duty to America. Lets love each other. Lets stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves. We can do great things for this country, apart from what the government controls. Lets be generous, and look out for one another. Help each other when someone's down. Little acts of kindness go a long way.

Thanks for the clarification, Emzap.  You're quite a gentlemen sir.  Your conduct in this thread has been quite commendable.