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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:25 pm
(November 14, 2016 at 9:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 14, 2016 at 9:17 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: You act as though there isn't a meaningful middle between "letting everyone walk in at their whim" and "deport all illegals".
There is, in fact, and that's what we do today.
Frankly, I'd consider it a whole lot less bigoted if it wasn't directly entirely at Mexico. When last I checked our other borders were even more porous and it's not as if we don't have a shitload of undocumented aliens from elsewhere.
(And yes, I understand you personally are not making that distinction.)
My bold.
Uh, not at all lol. I've expressed my views about there being a middle by saying families with children should be allowed to stay here. My response was to the extreme opinion that no one should be deported at all.
Which people are those precisely that hold that opinion? I've never met one that I know of.
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:25 pm
(November 14, 2016 at 9:24 pm)Minimalist Wrote: As C/D wrote the issue does not have to be black and white.... or brown and white, if you prefer....
Sure.... you can tell yourself that a highly educated applicant like Tibs and a poor peasant farmer fleeing gang-violence in Guatemala have an equal chance.
All they have to do is follow the process.
Here it is.
http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/im...n-card.pdf
Got a pencil?
So let me ask you again: what do you propose?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:26 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2016 at 9:26 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(November 14, 2016 at 9:25 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (November 14, 2016 at 9:19 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My bold.
Uh, not at all lol. I've expressed my views about there being a middle by saying families with children should be allowed to stay here. My response was to the extreme opinion that no one should be deported at all.
Which people are those precisely that hold that opinion? I've never met one that I know of.
It sounds like that's what rhythm and Min are saying. Or at least that everyone who wants in can just walk right in.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:26 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2016 at 9:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 14, 2016 at 9:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 14, 2016 at 9:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Oh, you mean in fantasyland, divorced from the reality of immigration policy, american demagogues and their rabid supporters?
I have no idea what you're talking about. I've stated my opinion on this several times. And it has nothing to do with Trump.
-an that's just one of the reasons that your opinion has nothing to do with reality. If all you want to talk about is whether or not border/immigration control, in principle..has to be racist...then you won't be having a conversation about how and why -we- do border/immigration control.
Heard anything about a canadian fence lately?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:29 pm
Quite honestly I'm getting really tired of this whole racism accusation thing. I never said that my stance only applies to Mexico. It doesn't.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:31 pm
(November 14, 2016 at 9:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: There's gotta be a line drawn somewhere though. Every country has borders and every country protects its borders. We can't let everyone just walk right in here willy nilly. If over population is a thing world wide, I don't see why it isn't a thing for countries individually.
That's the thing. We do let people walk right in. Half of all illegal immigrants are people who came here legally on visas and overstayed. Why is it that people supposedly trying to stop illegal immigration only seem to be concerned about the 50% coming through the southern border? The answer to that should be obvious.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:34 pm
(November 14, 2016 at 9:31 pm)Faith No More Wrote: (November 14, 2016 at 9:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: There's gotta be a line drawn somewhere though. Every country has borders and every country protects its borders. We can't let everyone just walk right in here willy nilly. If over population is a thing world wide, I don't see why it isn't a thing for countries individually.
That's the thing. We do let people walk right in. Half of all illegal immigrants are people who came here legally on visas and overstayed. Why is it that people supposedly trying to stop illegal immigration only seem to be concerned about the 50% coming through the southern border? The answer to that should be obvious.
For the record that is not at all my stance.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:37 pm
(November 14, 2016 at 9:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: For the record that is not at all my stance.
I didn't mean to imply that. It is, however, the stance of many people, and you have to ask yourself why people that claim to be against illegal immigration are only focused on one facet of it.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:41 pm
(November 14, 2016 at 9:25 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 14, 2016 at 9:24 pm)Minimalist Wrote: As C/D wrote the issue does not have to be black and white.... or brown and white, if you prefer....
Sure.... you can tell yourself that a highly educated applicant like Tibs and a poor peasant farmer fleeing gang-violence in Guatemala have an equal chance.
All they have to do is follow the process.
Here it is.
http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/im...n-card.pdf
Got a pencil?
So let me ask you again: what do you propose?
I am in favor of simplifying the process of immigration. I am also in favor of - GASP - amnesty for those already here. I'm also in favor of abolishing the H-1B Visa program.
What do you think that fuckhead Drumpf would think of that?
And while we are on the subject, a handful of states - usually those run by redneck asswipes - have tried their own solutions. Here's an example of how well it worked out.
https://mic.com/articles/8272/alabama-il....wu7d3vl7l
Quote:Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business
Quote:On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the fields again this year. Last fall Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley signed a tough law combating illegal immigration, which prompted undocumented workers to flee the state. Few locals will perform the grueling work of picking crops, and farmers stuck in a agricultural system built on illegal labor are struggling to find replacements before their produce rots.
Alabama’s situation is not unique. Georgia passed a similar immigration law in 2011. When undocumented workers fled, farmers lost around 40% of their workers and $140 million worth of blueberries, melons, onions, and other crops due to labor shortages. This year Georgia farmers again fear they will be short on workers to pick the crops, and many have scaled back production or stopped planting altogether.
C/L, and I say this in all sincerity, never forget that the Law of Unintended Consequences is a cast-iron bitch.
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 14, 2016 at 9:43 pm
(November 14, 2016 at 9:37 pm)Faith No More Wrote: (November 14, 2016 at 9:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: For the record that is not at all my stance.
I didn't mean to imply that. It is, however, the stance of many people, and you have to ask yourself why people that claim to be against illegal immigration are only focused on one facet of it.
Yeah, I don't think that's fair.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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