Quote:You need a desire to think up things before you think up things though!

Desire and faith are two very different things. I desire a brand new fold up bike, where does the whole faith bit come in?
I have strong desire to build this thing because I believe it could be useful to me. I don't know whether it would work or not.

Quote:You must have had faith in yourself to know that it was possible to build such a system (that you had a desire to design it) before you started. Right? Or at worst remotely possible!

No, I don't know at all if it would work or not. That's the whole point of building and testing it. So I'd know if it works or not.
I can see it working in my head, but would it work in reality, I don't know. So where does the faith bit come in?

Quote:Otherwise why would you bother to start it in the first place if it wasn't plausible is some way?

I bother to start on it because I want to see if it actually works. If it does then I could use it. If it doesn't, I'll redesign it.
What I don't get, is why do you theists insist on putting faith into everything? Does it really matter?

Quote:Like the wright brothers, based upon what they had faith in was possible!

They made calculations, and above all, they tested it. It worked.
Faith doesn't exist when it comes to this mate. If you think something might work, design it, build it and test it.
Seriously, enough with faith this and faith that. Not everything is based on faith.

Faith isn't required if you can test and measure it. Unlike inventions, god cannot be measured or tested.
You theists really need to drop the whole faith thing. It's really starting to get on my nerves.

(June 12, 2011 at 7:13 am)Andrastos Wrote: Like the wright brothers, based upon what they had faith in was possible! Changed the way we live! Despite all the ridicule they received, it is their faith that pushed them forward, and now look we have an Airbus A380F, just because 2 men had faith

You don't have to have faith in scientifically demonstrable, repeatable actions. There is no faith in flying. When I get on a plane I don't need faith. I just need a ticket.

When you drop a ball, do you need faith that it will hit the ground?

Faith only comes into the picture when we are talking about things that can't be shown, proven or demonstrated. Such as gods, fairies, unicorns or whatever brand of make believe you choose to have faith in.

(June 12, 2011 at 7:58 am)Skipper Wrote:

(June 12, 2011 at 7:13 am)Andrastos Wrote: Like the wright brothers, based upon what they had faith in was possible! Changed the way we live! Despite all the ridicule they received, it is their faith that pushed them forward, and now look we have an Airbus A380F, just because 2 men had faith

You don't have to have faith in scientifically demonstrable, repeatable actions. There is no faith in flying. When I get on a plane I don't need faith. I just need a ticket.

When you drop a ball, do you need faith that it will hit the ground?

Faith only comes into the picture when we are talking about things that can't be shown, proven or demonstrated. Such as gods, fairies, unicorns or whatever brand of make believe you choose to have faith in.

So you have no faith in yourself to do anything at all?

You do not have to desire to think to think. You continue to misuse terms, Andras. In addition, there is a difference between want and desire.

(June 12, 2011 at 7:50 am)Ace Otana Wrote:

Quote:You need a desire to think up things before you think up things though!

Desire and faith are two very different things. I desire a brand new fold up bike, where does the whole faith bit come in?
I have strong desire to build this thing because I believe it could be useful to me. I don't know whether it would work or not.

Quote:You must have had faith in yourself to know that it was possible to build such a system (that you had a desire to design it) before you started. Right? Or at worst remotely possible!

No, I don't know at all if it would work or not. That's the whole point of building and testing it. So I'd know if it works or not.
I can see it working in my head, but would it work in reality, I don't know. So where does the faith bit come in?

Quote:Otherwise why would you bother to start it in the first place if it wasn't plausible is some way?

I bother to start on it because I want to see if it actually works. If it does then I could use it. If it doesn't, I'll redesign it.
What I don't get, is why do you theists insist on putting faith into everything? Does it really matter?

Quote:Like the wright brothers, based upon what they had faith in was possible!

They made calculations, and above all, they tested it. It worked.
Faith doesn't exist when it comes to this mate. If you think something might work, design it, build it and test it.
Seriously, enough with faith this and faith that. Not everything is based on faith.

Faith isn't required if you can test and measure it. Unlike inventions, god cannot be measured or tested.
You theists really need to drop the whole faith thing. It's really starting to get on my nerves.

You really don't seem to be getting my point!

Do you have any faith in yourself to be able to do anything?

It's very simple I think!

Or do you have no faith in yourself!

Andy, do you have to chant a mantra to develop the faith to get out of bed to go get coffee in the morning?

"I think I can, I think I can ..."

(June 12, 2011 at 8:42 am)Andrastos Wrote: You really don't seem to be getting my point!

Do you have any faith in yourself to be able to do anything?

It's very simple I think!

Or do you have no faith in yourself!

Yes I trust in myself. Faith in oneself and faith in god are two very different things mate. I can see where you're going with this.

Quote:So you have no faith in yourself to do anything at all?

I don't think he said that. He pointed out that faith isn't required for something that is scientifically demonstrable.

You're clearly avoiding the points made.

(June 12, 2011 at 8:33 am)Epimethean Wrote: You do not have to desire to think to think. You continue to misuse terms, Andras. In addition, there is a difference between want and desire.

It is the bible that misuse terms not me!
I feel like i'm putting the true meaning back into faith!


I want a cup of tea!
I desire a cup of tea!
I feel like a cup of tea!

I feel a desire to go for a walk
I feel like I want to go for a walk
I feel like going for a walk
I want to go for a walk


I'm going for a walk, why?

Just a feeling
Because I want to, what of it!
Just a desire
Its just a desire I feel that I want to!



You may be right but i'm not getting it, can you explain?
Is it just the word? because I feel they mean the same thing!

It is in the bible? You are reading it in Greek? Careful there.

(June 12, 2011 at 8:33 am)Epimethean Wrote: You do not have to desire to think to think. You continue to misuse terms, Andras. In addition, there is a difference between want and desire.

This is getting ridicules,
Feel like I’m debating with the Christian’s now!

I have no desire to reply
I don't want to reply, Why? I just don't feel like it!
I really don't feel I have the desire that I want to reply!
I don't feel like I want to reply
I don't feel like replying




Not sure if I understand, can you explain to me the diff? Is it just the word?

Main Entry: desire
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: want, longing
Synonyms: admiration, ambition, appetite, ardor, aspiration, attraction, avidity, concupiscence, covetousness, craving, craze, cupidity, devotion, doting, eagerness, fancy, fascination, fervor, fondness, frenzy, greed, hankering*, hunger, inclination, infatuation, itch, lasciviousness, lechery, libido, liking, love, lust, mania, motive, need, passion, predilection, proclivity, propensity, rapaciousness, rapture, ravenousness, relish, salacity, solicitude, thirst, urge, voracity, will, wish, yearning