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A Theist · November 18, 2016 at 12:50 pm

(November 18, 2016 at 12:48 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The political version of "I have black friends" LOL< good for you, A?

You voted for the white guys, then, eh? You're a racist.

**Mister Agenda** · November 18, 2016 at 12:50 pm

Rhythm Wrote:What did forcing bigots to uncomfortably confront their bigotry, genteel or otherwise, accomplish? Oh, only the civil rights movement and the total reformation of the democratic party.

Shhh, shhh, quiet everybody, we can't upset the bigots, they might -do- something. Fuck, they might even vote for the other guy! Yeah, no shit, they might flee your party like they did then, and run to the other guys. Problem?

I don't think the civil rights movement worked the way you think it did. It wasn't about calling average Americans bigots, it was about exposing the reality of bigotry in a way that reached people. MLK was a master of engaging the empathy of anyone who wasn't a committed racist.

**Mister Agenda** · November 18, 2016 at 12:54 pm

Rhythm Wrote:Doesn't do me much good, MA. What good -could- it do me, lol? All my way has ever done is make me an outsider in my ingroup of rurals. I'm okay with that. What high horse? I can give you an itemized list of my personal failings if you like...but that won;t change the fact that a bigot is a bigot, and that I'm more than capable of making that call from down here in the gutter.

The good of feeling swell about yourself. No matter your faults, at least you've got people to look down on. But I'm a psychological egoist, I don't believe anyone does things for nothing. Including me. I enjoy these conversations, and appreciate your thick skin.

**Faith No More** · November 18, 2016 at 12:54 pm

(November 18, 2016 at 12:10 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:
Faith No More Wrote:Not sure what you mean by that.

Your disapproval of them will not bring the Senate one vote closer to turning blue in 2018. Democrats understanding Rust Belt economic concerns and at least sympathizing with them will get more votes back in formerly blue states than railing against 3rd Party voters and calling everyone who voted for Trump a racist. However satisfying and effortless the latter may be. We should be thinking about how to get the ones who are reachable on our side, not how to alienate them further.

What side? I don't have a side to bring them to.

If the dems can simply manage to nominate a good candidate that wants to address the concerns of the people and isn't in the pockets of big business and Wall Street they'd have a much better chance in 2020. Flipping a few of those blue votes isn't going to do shit. You need to get a candidate that will energize the base and drive them to the polls.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: November 18, 2016 at 1:03 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

Like I already told you, pointing out that others are bigoted doesn't make me feel swell. It makes me feel disgust for our shared humanity. They are, after all, my fellow americans. I have some deeply racist family members who I love and would defend as well. I have bigoted little urges and ticks of my own...it's not as if I can escape them, lol...product of my environment. As I told you, I don't require a high horse, and don;t possess a high horse...so how much do you think self righteousness is worth...to me...lol? It simply doesn't -matter- to me whether I'm right, or the racists are right. Good luck having that argument with them in any case.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: November 18, 2016 at 1:19 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

(November 18, 2016 at 12:50 pm)A Theist Wrote:
(November 18, 2016 at 12:48 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The political version of "I have black friends" LOL< good for you, A?

You voted for the white guys, then, eh? You're a racist.

I didn't vote at all. Swing and a miss.

More amusingly, I think it;s funny that you imagine being called a racist would bother me, lol? OFC, on many levels, I am. I know that about myself. I recognize it. It's folks that think that they have either managed to hide it so well that others don;t notice...or who have indeed managed to hide it so well hat they don;t notice it in themselves...who are the ones whose racism and racist tendencies are so transparent and predictable that it becomes the operative force of their ability to get conned by a guy like..oh, idk....your boy Trump.

I'm the kind of racist who knows to keep it in his pants. You, obviously, aren't. / shrugs

A Theist · November 18, 2016 at 2:06 pm

(November 18, 2016 at 1:14 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(November 18, 2016 at 12:50 pm)A Theist Wrote: You voted for the white guys, then, eh? You're a racist.

I didn't vote at all. Swing and a miss.

More amusingly, I think it;s funny that you imagine being called a racist would bother me, lol? OFC, on many levels, I am. I know that about myself. I recognize it. It's folks that think that they have either managed to hide it so well that others don;t notice...or who have indeed managed to hide it so well hat they don;t notice it in themselves...who are the ones whose racism and racist tendencies are so transparent and predictable that it becomes the operative force of their ability to get conned by a guy like..oh, idk....your boy Trump.

I'm the kind of racist who knows to keep it in his pants. You, obviously, aren't. / shrugs

You didn't vote? Then what are you bitching and moaning about? You helped to elect "our boy Trump". I hope you non-participants feel that way again in fours years. Your argument ain't worth shit now.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: November 18, 2016 at 2:27 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

What argument? Whose arguing? I'm just pointing out bigotry where it exists. Like so "Ha, look at that bigot!, lol"
-to which we are treated to the responses;
-I have black friends
-It was an accident
-You'll never get them to vote for my party by calling them bigots.
-They voted for my party because you called them bigots

LOL?

As to the vote, what was I supposed to do, vote for the racist ideology, like you did? Vote for the idiots, like 3rd party voters did, vote for the corporatist shill, like the dems did?

Meh, I'll pass. I see no beneficial outcomes to any of it. Trump being pres didn't make this place any more or less racist than it already was (and electing hillary wouldn't have had that effect either). I can accurately see it as the business as usual situation it is. Some of these other guys, well, they had hopes and dreams.

Thumpalumpacus · November 18, 2016 at 2:19 pm

(November 18, 2016 at 11:49 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:
Thumpalumpacus Wrote:I don't see why holding their priorities up in their face is such a problem.

Because it doesn't increase the odds that they will vote for your candidate next time, I'd imagine. No one is talking about the people who would never vote for a Democrat. We're talking about the ones who didn't vote for the Democrat this time.

Yeah, I'm speaking in the context of this discussion, not from the perspective of the candidate who'll be running. That's exactly why I wrote that Hillary using the term "basket of deplorables" was a big blunder.

I think it's important to make those Trump voters understand that we don't think all of them are irredeemable bigots. But it is equally important to get them to understand that a vote cannot be spent a la carte, and you select from a menu of your candidate's positions. Like it or not, when you vote (for whatever reason) for a bigot, his bigotry has gotten your support. When you buy the boat, you have to take the leaks, too.

abaris · (This post was last modified: November 18, 2016 at 2:26 pm by abaris.)

(November 18, 2016 at 12:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: It makes me feel disgust for our shared humanity. They are, after all, my fellow americans.

Welcome to the club. I guess only (maybe ironically) Germany is the only country fighting off this outburst of the most primitive human instincts successfully. In my whole life I never was a Germanophobe although my ancestors suffered by the hands of their ancestors. But I still find some kind of irony in the thought that I consider Germany to be a save haven if things get too bad in my own country.

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