(January 11, 2017 at 3:45 pm)A Theist Wrote: No. It's not  about a lesson learned. It's about the penalty. A life for a life for a remorseless murderer.

And who, pray tell, is learning that lesson?

It's revenge, not a lesson.

(January 11, 2017 at 3:45 pm)A Theist Wrote: No. It's not  about a lesson learned. It's about the penalty. A life for a life for a remorseless murderer.

Do you think rapists should get government sanctioned rape though?

If we say "a life for a life," I don't see the reason for this logic not to extend to anything else.

I thought that's what a prison sentence was?  

Absolutely pro-death penalty. Moreover we should expand the judiciary to expedite the process. Justice and its timely implementation (with regards to a fair and comprehensive appeals process) should be the cornerstone of any civilized society.

(January 11, 2017 at 4:24 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(January 11, 2017 at 4:13 pm)mlmooney89 Wrote: Let's see, I'm for the death penalty so yes. I think I have already made it very clear that when it comes to cold blooded murder I don't think anything short of death is acceptable. For anything less than murder no. I'm not saying rape those that rape or torture someone that tortures animals. This is only about intentional murder.

Why should murderers be killed themselves?  What purpose does it serve other than making an emotional, vengeful point?  I wouldn't want to live in a system that bases it's law on emotion and revenge.  

That's not even considering the facts that the death penalty does not work as a deterrent, has the possibility of executing innocent people, is a horrible violation of human rights, is slow, inefficient, and expensive, and that we are the only western developed nation to still use it.

I've already said why, twice now. I get it, we disagree. To me it's not about money so I don't care if it is more expensive. And I'm not worried about it being a deterrent. People that kill don't go oh I shouldn't kill because I will get killed. Most do it because they don't think they will get caught, nothing will deter that way of thinking so throwing that into the pile seems a moot point. Didn't say the system wasn't faulty in killing the innocent, didn't say we didn't need to work on fixing it. But I want it there for people like Mr. Roof. There is no doubt what he did and there is no doubt that he deserves to join his victims in death. I disagree it is a ciolation of human rights because Roof forfeited those rights the moment he took another life. Slow in how long they actually take to die or slow process to get them the injection? Only western nation to still use it... hmmmm yeah that doesn't bother me at all. You say it like it's a legit reason to stop summin. So if everyone banned the burka we should too? Hmmmm no.

Great news!

@ Fat and Faithless. I agree with you but that's just because I'm a consequentialist. Not everyone is a consequentialist so not everyone will find consequentalist arguments compelling.

If you don't care about the expense,you realize that it's not a deterrent, and you acknowledge the faulty nature of the system.....then it's just an expensive, ineffective, and faulty means of revenge killing.  

That, would be the reason not to do it. If it's not, then let's dispense with the notion that reasons (pro or con) have anything to do with the issue at all, eh? You think somebody deserves it, and you're willing to maintain all of the above for the instance in which you can isolate that person.

(January 11, 2017 at 4:35 pm)abaris Wrote:

(January 11, 2017 at 3:45 pm)A Theist Wrote: No. It's not  about a lesson learned. It's about the penalty. A life for a life for a remorseless murderer.

And who, pray tell, is learning that lesson?

It's revenge, not a lesson.

I never said it was a lesson. It's that state's law, the penalty for murder.

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(January 11, 2017 at 4:55 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 11, 2017 at 3:45 pm)A Theist Wrote: No. It's not  about a lesson learned. It's about the penalty. A life for a life for a remorseless murderer.

Do you think rapists should get government sanctioned rape though?

If we say "a life for a life," I don't see the reason for this logic not to extend to anything else.

There's already penalties that states legislators have slated for rape. Although there are several states who have the death penalty for the rape of children...and what variables are you including in the "rape for rape" logic? Some violent rapes end up with the victim being tortured and murdered by the attacker, i.e. the likes of Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy.

Not every murder and not every killing rises to the level of a death sentence in this country. Every variable and every circumstance involving a death carries its own penalty from state to state. For example, deaths due to the negligent actions of another may rise to the level of a civil lawsuit. Depending on the degree of murder a person is charged with may or may not be punishable by a death sentence, and that, again, depends on each state's laws regarding their penalties in a murder case.

Here are the different levels of murder under the law...

Quote:The phrase "degrees of murder" refers to the intent or severity of a particular murder charge. Some states define their degrees of murder numerically. Common degrees of murder include first degree murder and second degree murder. Other states place specific labels on their murder offenses, such as capital murder, murder, and justifiable homicide. 

Despite the label of the degree of murder, the idea is to gradually increase the punishment with the degree. The more egregious the killing, or the motive behind a killing, then the higher the degree of punishment for that type of murder charge. 

First Degree or Capital Murder
First-degree murder, or capital murder as it is often called, is the most serious form of murder. In most states, a first degree murder involves elements like deliberate planning, premeditation, or malice. Deliberate means that the defendant makes a clear-headed decision to kill the victim. Premeditation involves showing the defendant actually thought about the killing before it occurred.

The period of thought required to classify a murder as premeditated may be very brief. A killing with malice requires proof that the defendant did a harmful act without just cause or legal excuse. For example, if someone decided to kill a business rival who is attempting a corporate takeover by purchasing a gun and waiting for the victim in a deserted parking garage, then the shooting would have all the elements of first-degree murder.

If, on the other hand, business competitors got into a fight when the rival announced his intention to take over the other man's business, and the second man flew into a rage and hit the rival with it, causing his death, the killing would not be classified as a first-degree murder because the defendant did not plan or make the decision to kill in advance.
Some states have additional factors which classify a murder as a first degree murder or capital murder. The first factor is usually the motive. Why did the offender want to kill the victim? Certain motives result in a higher degree felony. These motives can include the victim being a police officer, or where the murder was racially motivated.

The second factor is simply the context of the murder. How did the murder occur? Other states will charge a defendant for first degree murder if more than one person was killed during the same episode or it the victim was under or over a certain age and particularly vulnerable. Others enhance the murder degree if it was combined with another felony like sexual assault or robbery.
The third factor is how the murder was committed. Some states consider killings committed in specific fashion to be first-degree murder. Although these vary by state, they can include killing by poison, by lying in wait, and by torture. States may also presume malice if the killing is done with a deadly weapon.

Second Degree Murder
Second degree murder is killing another with malice - doing a harmful act without just cause or legal excuse - but without premeditation or deliberation. In other words, this means intentionally killing someone without planning to do so in advance. If a person becomes angry, walks over to a desk where he keeps a gun that is kept just for his protection, takes out the gun and shoots another person, that may be second-degree murder because there was no plan or advance decision to kill. It would still be second degree murder because the act of taking out the gun and shooting was intentional.

Felony Murder
Felony murder is a killing that happens during the course of the commission of a felony. The murder isn’t necessarily planned out or intended, it’s just a consequence of the other offense. Even a death that is an accident will be considered felony murder by most states if it happens while a felony is being committed.

For example, if someone becomes frightened and falls down a flight of stairs during a robbery, that would be felony murder in some states, even though the death was accidental and the robber did not mean to cause the death. If three people are involved in robbing a bank and one of them shoots a guard, without any preplanning with the others, then all three could be guilty of felony murder, since they willingly participated in the robbery and knew that there was a possibility that someone could get hurt during the course of the robbery.
Any defendant charged with murder should understand the degree of their murder charges because it can affect the level of punishment and defensive strategies. Capital or first degree charges can result in the death penalty in some states.  Understanding the different degrees can literally be a life or death decision.

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/crimi...murder.htm