Hitler was raised a Christian but did not necessarily remain one. One needs to examine his modus operandi here. When he became Fuhrer he wanted complete control. He knew in order to achieve this that he would need the popular backing of the German people who were predominantly Christian. Hence his reason for invoking religion. Which very neatly segued into the Jewish question too. So this was classic politicking on his part to ally the country with his vision. Had the Church put up significant opposition to him, his tune would have changed. So please let us not fall into the trap of assuming that he was Christian because he referenced it in a speech or there is a photo of him leaving a church. Means nothing. All he was ultimately concerned with was securing and maintaining absolute power. End of.

(June 25, 2011 at 3:29 am)twocompulsive Wrote: Hitler was raised a Christian but did not necessarily remain one. One needs to examine his modus operandi here. When he became Fuhrer he wanted complete control. He knew in order to achieve this that he would need the popular backing of the German people who were predominantly Christian. Hence his reason for invoking religion. Which very neatly segued into the Jewish question too. So this was classic politicking on his part to ally the country with his vision. Had the Church put up significant opposition to him, his tune would have changed. So please let us not fall into the trap of assuming that he was Christian because he referenced it in a speech or there is a photo of him leaving a church. Means nothing. All he was ultimately concerned with was securing and maintaining absolute power. End of.

You're obviously delusional.

Hitler referenced Christianity quite often in his works -- a casual inspection of Mein Kampf shows that. In addition, he cites Martin Luther as a source for his reasons to target the Jewish populations upon religious grounds.

There is a large body of evidence showing him utilizing Christianity in most of his works. Your reasoning would have us discard all that in favor of spurious speculation and weak minded conclusions.

A bit like fundamentalist religion.

(June 25, 2011 at 3:42 am)Moros Synackaon Wrote:

(June 25, 2011 at 3:29 am)twocompulsive Wrote: Hitler was raised a Christian but did not necessarily remain one. One needs to examine his modus operandi here. When he became Fuhrer he wanted complete control. He knew in order to achieve this that he would need the popular backing of the German people who were predominantly Christian. Hence his reason for invoking religion. Which very neatly segued into the Jewish question too. So this was classic politicking on his part to ally the country with his vision. Had the Church put up significant opposition to him, his tune would have changed. So please let us not fall into the trap of assuming that he was Christian because he referenced it in a speech or there is a photo of him leaving a church. Means nothing. All he was ultimately concerned with was securing and maintaining absolute power. End of.

You're obviously delusional.

Hitler referenced Christianity quite often in his works -- a casual inspection of Mein Kampf shows that. In addition, he cites Martin Luther as a source for his reasons to target the Jewish populations upon religious grounds.

There is a large body of evidence showing him utilizing Christianity in most of his works. Your reasoning would have us discard all that in favor of spurious speculation and weak minded conclusions.

No one is disputing his reference of Christianity. What I am suggesting is that there was an ulterior political motive at work here. The large body of evidence is rather ambiguous and contradictory which is why there is this eternal debate about his religious convictions. And on the subject of Mein Kampf which sold more than ten million, all Hitler really cared about was the fact that it made him a millionaire. He couldn't care less whether anyone read it or not. Does that strike you as someone whose prouncements should be taken seriously ? So my conclusion remains : he was only concerned with securing and maintaining absolute power. Everything else was superfluous to requirement.

It doesn't really matter what Hitler thought himself, though his own words tend to suggest he was very religious. His references to religion persuaded many others to carry out plenty of killings for him.
And at least one of his contemporaries thought him religious enough to do business with.

I'm curious to hear how you know that Hitler was merely invoking religion for political reasons and didn't wholeheartedly believe he was doing the Christian thing.

If a bird looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and swims like a duck and calls himself a duck.


He's a duck.


... and history will care not about his reasonings.

You could also say the Pope was actually a Muslim trying to discreetly sabotage Catholicism from the inside. You could say i'm not an atheist, i'm just infiltrating your ranks to gather information for my Scientology Overlords. You can't disprove that. And you can't disprove the idea that Hitler used Christianity for power.

But you can't prove it either. Hitler never said that he was using Christianity for political means. We are not in his head. What evidence we do have is that he made alot of statement referencing Christianity. And if someone -anyone- else made those kinds of statements, you wouldn't think twice about their religious affiliations.

(June 25, 2011 at 7:38 am)FaithNoMore Wrote: I'm curious to hear how you know that Hitler was merely invoking religion for political reasons and didn't wholeheartedly believe he was doing the Christian thing.

His religious pronouncements diminished after he had secured power. They were a means to an end, not an end in themselves. Religion was only invoked because Germany was predominantly Christian. Had it not been then it would either have never been referenced by him, or insignificantly so.

Also this : Himmler was a Pagan and strongly disapproved of Christian weddings for S S officers. If Hitler was as religious as is suggested, would he have allowed someone with those views to be given so much power and authority within the Third Reich ?

Regardless of whether Hitler was a Christian or not, the anti-Semitism he subscribed to was firmly in the tradition of Christian anti-Semitism. Also Hitler was not the first person of note in Europe to propose the destruction of the Jews. For example Martin Luther advocated the extermination of the Jews in his book entitled On the Jews and Their Lies

http://www.humanitas-international.org/s...r-jews.htm

Mind you some Christians did oppose (with some losing their lives in the process) the Nazis attempts to exterminate the Jews of Europe.

Hitler seems to have been rather devoutly Christ loving. As for Himmler, if the man was not a Jew and was good for the role, why not use him? Regarding his "paganism," he was pretty well inculcated into Catholicism and never publicly denounced it. His pagan outlook was really more an outlet for his racism than for any religiously transcendent purpose.


As an aside, there were plenty of men from the old German army who were not initially Nazis, but who served that power very faithfully.