What if...

what we call the mind is what the brain feels like to be a brain, from the inside?

(February 6, 2017 at 1:37 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(February 6, 2017 at 1:33 pm)Khemikal Wrote: It shouldn't be difficult to establish or understand that we're capable of creating non-local sensations or perception.  I dream of being in places I've never been, and places that do not exist....it doesn't take anything remotely as stressful as an nde to produce that effect.  Who could, with a straight face, argue that this does not happen, that such is not the case?

Good point.

Rik, does it seem reasonable that the brain has a separate mechanism for imagining "where it is" in dreams that isn't used in day-to-day consciousness?

The brain is made of matter yog.
Never forget that.
The brain is a storage of information that get activated ONLY when the consciousness wish.
It is like the hard driver of your computer that get activated when you (YOU) decide to do so or
like your car that goes when YOU decide so.
From here it is obvious that the brain does NOT have any mechanism to start the action.

Talking about dreams the consciousness (and not the brain) can only imagine what she has previously seen in this life plus a mixture of imaginations that are made up in order to build up something that
may make sense to the individual whether they are good or bad according to one mental peace of mind or disturbances.

These dreams whether they bring peace or more mental disturbances have absolutely nothing to do with an NDE which does not fade away after only a very short time but last for a lifetime in a very vivid, clear and sharp panorama.

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(February 6, 2017 at 2:30 pm)Stimbo Wrote: What if...

what we call the mind is what the brain feels like to be a brain, from the inside?

The fact that the mind is inside the brain doesn't mean that the mind is the brain.
You can be inside a car but you are not the car.

You never thought of that Stim, did you?  

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(February 6, 2017 at 1:17 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(February 6, 2017 at 9:43 am)Little Rik Wrote: Your experts allege that an NDE can happen in the brain by the brain even when the blood and oxygen doesn't flow in the brain anymore and it is the brain that create the illusion that an NDE is happening.
That is not possible.
As far as the consciousness left the body-brain and can see his body from above then the brain is unable to do anything.
It is the consciousness the driver or the one that start the action of thinking.
The consciousness can not possibly be in two places at the same time.
Or it is inside the body-brain or it is outside so if it is outside the brain is unable to do anything even if the cells are not dead yet.

It's possible that the consciousness never actually leaves the body.  That the experience of leaving the body is a hallucination.  What do you think is generating the feeling of being "inside your head" at this very moment?  The brain has powerful machinery for creating the illusion that there is a something that is 'you' that is inside your head looking out.  That same machinery is used to create the sensation that you are outside your body.  If it can create the illusion that you are inside your body, why can't it create the illusion that you're outside your body?   What, do you think your consciousness has "where am I" feelers to tell that it's inside your head?  No, the where of your consciousness is generated by the brain along with everything else.

Just think.  Your consciousness feels that it is inside your head.  Which is doing that, consciousness or your brain?

Quote:The researchers tracked down a woman who is able to enter this “out of body experience” (or OOBE) state at will, and hooked her up to a brain scanner. According to their paper, published in Frontiers of Human Neuroscience, the woman saw herself floating in the air above herself, watching herself move while feeling completely unaware of her physical body.

While she was getting her float on, the MRI showed a deactivation of her visual cortex, while the part of her brain responsible for imagining body movement lit up. This particular portion of the brain is responsible for “kinesthetic imagery,” the thing that allows you understand how your body relates to the world around it. It seems that this particular combination of brain function allowed the woman to feel as though she was floating outside of her physical body.

With this new information on-hand, the researchers are saying that OOBEs are basically a very specific type of hallucination triggered by a certain neurological mechanism.

http://www.themarysue.com/out-of-body-explained/

Quote: In a study of 264 subjects with sleep paralysis[3], Giorgio Buzzi and Fabio Cirignotta found that about 11% of their subjects (28 people) "viewed themselves lying on the bed, generally from a location above the bed" (Buzzi 2116). As Buzzi points out, however, these out-of-body experiences often included false perceptions of the physical environment:


Buzzi concludes that because these experiences contained out-of-body discrepancies and failed his other 'reality tests,' his subjects' out-of-body imagery must have been derived from memory and imagination rather than from the physical environment at the time (2117).

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...HNDEs.html

What are you telling me, that the woman hallucinated that she was wearing long johns while her consciousness was outside her body?  Whoah, if that can happen there's no end to the possible false perceptions that consciousness can have!

Was that experiment-s done when there was a flat EEG reading?
It is paramount to know that yog because in the case that there was a flat EEG reading
the consciousness separate from the body.
If not then the conscious mind may have imagined things (hallucinations).
When you got a flat EEG the parallelism among body-brain and consciousness is gone and when the parallelism is gone the consciousness will separate from body-brain.
Similar to when your car rot away.
Why would you stay inside that vehicle any longer?

If you read among the hundreds of NDEs you will find that many people could see things in places where they never been before when they were alive which it means that only an out of body consciousness could have done so.    
These experiences were reported to staff in the emergency room where the body revived and the staff there agree that it was true.

Once again yog you keep on hanging by the nails hoping that NDEs are all imagination.
I got bad news for you yog.  
NDEs are real and God is also real.
Get over with that for your own mental stability.  

You can open up a car and see the driver. Where in the brain is the mind?

If our consciousness could jump ship when the brain it's stuck in was rotting..I have a feeling that some peoples consciousness would have long since done so.  

(February 7, 2017 at 9:50 am)Khemikal Wrote: If our consciousness could jump ship when the brain it's stuck in was rotting..I have a feeling that some peoples consciousness would have long since done so.  

I wonder what happens with cryogenic preservation.

(February 7, 2017 at 9:04 am)Stimbo Wrote: You can open up a car and see the driver. Where in the brain is the mind?

It is all about evolution Stim.
The more the evolution take place the more the consciousness get less crude (material) and more subtle.
And when this happen the material side turn into an abstract entity.
Just because you can not see, touch or smell this consciousness it doesn't mean that is not there.  

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(February 7, 2017 at 9:50 am)Khemikal Wrote: If our consciousness could jump ship when the brain it's stuck in was rotting..I have a feeling that some peoples consciousness would have long since done so.  

How many times people wish to get things that they can not afford?
It happen all the time but life is tough mate.
In order to jump into a better ship you got to be able to afford the price.
The consciousness is bound to stay in a particular situation because it can not afford the price.  

Great story. So where does the mind sit in the brain car?

(February 7, 2017 at 10:20 am)Stimbo Wrote: Great story. So where does the mind sit in the brain car?

It depend what layer of mind are you talking about mate Stim.
The super conscious mind is deep within the pineal gland but other layers of mind are external to it.
An iceberg is one but you can only see the above part unless you go under the water.
The conscious mind is one but you can only feel the outer mind within your brain.  

Please stow the passive-aggression along with the Chopra. If I wanted to talk about icebergs I'd go to icebergfetish.com.

What is left to call a mind after you remove all the non-mind bits of the brain?

(February 7, 2017 at 7:16 am)Little Rik Wrote: Was that experiment-s done when there was a flat EEG reading?
It is paramount to know that yog because in the case that there was a flat EEG reading
the consciousness separate from the body.
If not then the conscious mind may have imagined things (hallucinations).
When you got a flat EEG the parallelism among body-brain and consciousness is gone and when the parallelism is gone the consciousness will separate from body-brain.
Similar to when your car rot away.
Why would you stay inside that vehicle any longer?

[My bold.]

Tell you what, Rik. If any of us is near by and your vitals go flat. We'll be sure to tell the medics to hook up the EEG machine before they get the paddles out as per your request. Got you back here, man.

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(February 7, 2017 at 10:20 am)Stimbo Wrote: Great story. So where does the mind sit in the brain car?

Does the mind have its own butt for sitting purposes?