Russia will always attempt to destabilise the region as long as the bulk of their exports have to pass through the Bosphorus.
Cold war proxies or the 'Great Game' of the 19th Century all amount to the same thing.

(March 3, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Bella Morte Wrote: 1. Would you rather we were still in charge?

That depends. Being on top requires nothing but good intentions for the ones below; actually it's more of working together to eleminate the distance, teaching each other the tricks of the trade, and never hurt who's behind with ego that we're in charge; also never overload our scouts with immense weakness and emotional sores.

Quote:2. I would love to see sanctions and diplomatic ties cut with shitholes in the Middle East, but you know, oil is important for now, unfortunately. We also need to stop funding "opposition" groups.

People are so different than officials and decision makers. That's why I use the following sentence as a secret weapon against terrorists: "westerners are one thing; governemtnts and bankers and businessmen are a total different thing".
You would love this and dream about that, Bella, but in the end it's interest talking, and the very few would not savor a single methodology to drug whole nations to follow notions and paths that only serve the few.
So the throne of the 1% would be kept, on the expense of butchering a million or two millions. And the media won't transfer your voice; they would transfer the voice of 'Jihadi John' facing 'Geert Wilders'.

Quote:3. Is it though? Regimes committing atrocities and other human rights violations against their citizens are well documented and often reported on the news. Politicians have openly admitted mistakes they made with Syria and Libya.

No, Bella. Just see the amounts of Arabs fleeing the region.
Also, many cases are not even entering the record. 9/11 papers for example were only out "partially" after 13 years.

Secret prisons where torture was carried out don't even make it to the list. Abu-Guraib is an example.

And that's just America in one war. Count all Arab countries, along with China and Russia, Southern Asia, North Korea, Mexican Drug Cartels...etc.

Our world is a cemetery.

Quote:4. The West does not support the Assad government. If you're looking to blame someone, then try Putin or Hassan Rouhani.

They know that this regime killed thousand, and tortured as many.
So bloody their names  spread deep terror that I can't shake.
شبيحة
الله, بشار, سوريا وبس
It's a horror show. The west has the UN in its pocket. They could've end this mess from day one just like in Libya.

(March 4, 2017 at 1:42 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: They could've end this mess from day one just like in Libya.

What mess in Lybia has been ended? There's no country to speak of left. No administration, no infrastructure, no peace. In fact the West worsened the situation in Lybia.

(March 4, 2017 at 1:52 pm)abaris Wrote:

(March 4, 2017 at 1:42 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: They could've end this mess from day one just like in Libya.

What mess in Lybia has been ended? There's no country to speak of left. No administration, no infrastructure, no peace. In fact the West worsened the situation in Lybia.

They invested the strength of the NATO to crush Gaddafi's war machine and take out the mad dictator.
Why didn't they do that with Assad?

(March 4, 2017 at 2:31 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: They invested the strength of the NATO to crush Gaddafi's war machine and take out the mad dictator.
Why didn't they do that with Assad?

So you think there's a desirable outcome in Lybia? Where exactly?

(March 4, 2017 at 2:49 pm)abaris Wrote:

(March 4, 2017 at 2:31 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: They invested the strength of the NATO to crush Gaddafi's war machine and take out the mad dictator.
Why didn't they do that with Assad?

So you think there's a desirable outcome in Lybia? Where exactly?

Chaos that allows the stealing of oil, to dodge an economical crisis that would take worldwide fat cats, some banks already closed their doors.
And begin a war economy that would bring a dollar or two.

Not that Gaddafi was a good man. But he wasn't working for the right group.

(March 4, 2017 at 1:42 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The west has the UN in its pocket. They could've end this mess from day one just like in Libya.

The UN option was vetoed by Russia and China, for their own interests.
Frankly the track record of dealing with ME problems is... not impressive...

Riddle me this. What would have happened if someone had bombed Assad into Oblivion? How would have things improved, given all the different groups fighting for their own reasons and for their own turf?

(March 4, 2017 at 6:01 pm)abaris Wrote: Riddle me this. What would have happened if someone had bombed Assad into Oblivion? How would have things improved, given all the different groups fighting for their own reasons and for their own turf?

Sykes-Picot treaty was all about cutting Arabs into societies that would never be one.
And to actually come up with a single farm; I mean society; you need a hand of steel and a torture machine so strong is keep the cows at bay.

In every Sykes picot society, we have different clans -like sunna and shiites- locked under small borders, you will never control them but by molten metal and big torture gulags. 

The solution? we all know it: let an Ottoman model come back.
A single state, so big it takes all these people under one flag. Then it's peace in the Middle East.

Actually, it's called Arabia. and it's not the playground of imperialistic foreign powers anymore.

But once a state breathes and go that path (Like Iraq and Saddam), armies of sykes-picot children would come to spread chaos by force; the plan didn't work so they need to ensure they contain its backfire.

(March 4, 2017 at 9:22 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The solution? we all know it: let an Ottoman model come back.
A single state, so big it takes all these people under one flag. Then it's peace in the Middle East.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like much of a solution to me. But I would like the West to just pull out of the Middle East and leave you all to it. Enough blood has been spilled trying to sort that place out.