(March 6, 2017 at 3:55 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: But the negation is another proposition.

1. Proposition - gods exists
2. Proposition - gods do not exist

I do not have to take the contrapositive position when responding to the first.

There is only one proposition on the table. What is your stance with respect to P1, "God exists"? Either P1 is true or P1 is not true. As per the law of the excluded middle you have only two choices.

(March 6, 2017 at 5:04 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(March 6, 2017 at 3:55 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: But the negation is another proposition.

1. Proposition - gods exists
2. Proposition - gods do not exist

I do not have to take the contrapositive position when responding to the first.

There is only one proposition on the table. What is your stance with respect to P1, "God exists"? Either P1 is true or P1 is not true. As per the law of the excluded middle you have only two choices.

I agree, either P1 is true or not true. Those are the only possibilities.

My position on the truth values of P1 is, I don't know, with absolute certainty, if it is true or not. This defines me as agnostic.

My position on theist's claim that P1 is true, is I do not believe it, since I don't find that they have met their burden of proof. This defines me as an atheist.

But just because I do not believe gods exist, does not mean I am claiming that they don't exist. Only that I currently have no justification to believe they do.

(March 6, 2017 at 11:26 am)SteveII Wrote:

(March 3, 2017 at 9:03 pm)TheAtheologian Wrote: I decided to make a thread on theists explaining why they accept the existence of their God. I know there are few theists on here as compared to atheists/agnostics but I am interested to see what the major ways of the theists on here are. 

Would you ever change your mind God's existence and become an atheist?

1. I, like most people in the world, have no trouble believing that the supernatural exists. 
2. I believe the events of the NT happened basically as described. 
3. The person and teachings of Jesus are compelling and my personal experience affirms the truth of many of his teachings. 
4. While I grew up in a Christian home and don't have a "drastic change" story, I have directly heard hundreds (if not more) testimonies how God has changed people's lives in drastic ways. 
5. There are no successful arguments that show that believing in God is irrational, so I can't see myself changing my mind.

Would you ever change your mind about God's existence?

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(March 6, 2017 at 2:15 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: It would require  several in depth conversations to address the individual reasons for my theism and Christianity, as well as my refutations for other religions and atheism or agnosticism.  I generally do this privately as the open forum has been exhausted with the same old arguments and brings a lot of outside interference.

I would be interested to see the refutations and reasons for your beliefs, are they anything similar to mainstream Christian Apologetics or uniquely different?

(March 6, 2017 at 6:50 pm)TheAtheologian Wrote:

(March 6, 2017 at 11:26 am)SteveII Wrote: 1. I, like most people in the world, have no trouble believing that the supernatural exists. 
2. I believe the events of the NT happened basically as described. 
3. The person and teachings of Jesus are compelling and my personal experience affirms the truth of many of his teachings. 
4. While I grew up in a Christian home and don't have a "drastic change" story, I have directly heard hundreds (if not more) testimonies how God has changed people's lives in drastic ways. 
5. There are no successful arguments that show that believing in God is irrational, so I can't see myself changing my mind.

Would you ever change your mind about God's existence?

I have yet to hear a compelling argument that makes me even think twice.

(March 6, 2017 at 4:49 pm)Drich Wrote: I sought God via the biblical instructions and simply found God.

If someone sought God and found him via some other holy book such as the Koran, would you believe them?

(March 3, 2017 at 9:03 pm)TheAtheologian Wrote: I decided to make a thread on theists explaining why they accept the existence of their God. I know there are few theists on here as compared to atheists/agnostics but I am interested to see what the major ways of the theists on here are. 

Would you ever change your mind God's existence and become an atheist?

Things are always changing, and at times my focus's may lead more in one direction, and then the another in the next.  However; I think that from the philosophical, presuppositional, and scientific arguments that at minimum I would be a deist, and I don't find that the atheist or materialist worldview matches reality as well.   As to Christianity, and where I began.  I believed the history.   I feel that Christianity is unique in it's dependency and place in history.  Many of it's claims where done in public, and and where falsifiable by those who opposed, and those who followed.  They refer back to history, among a number of different authors, throughout a large span of time, and over a varied geography.  It both points forward and looks back.  

I would be open to a case made for atheism, but it seems that most either retreat to a neutral skeptical position; mostly because those who try to make a hard case, can't really back up or give reasons for their view.

(March 3, 2017 at 9:03 pm)TheAtheologian Wrote: I decided to make a thread on theists explaining why they accept the existence of their God. I know there are few theists on here as compared to atheists/agnostics but I am interested to see what the major ways of the theists on here are. 

Would you ever change your mind God's existence and become an atheist?

To your last question, no. Why, once you've truly experienced God there is no denying Him. One may chose not to follow Him {for what reason I can't imagine} but one can never deny what one knows is true.
I became a Christian in my mid-20's but it was many years before I came to know God as anything more than savior. Once I dedicated my self to growing in a walk with God He opened up a world to me through His word and through answered prayer that has profoundly changed who I am. I find that honest science can and does reveal what He has done with and in the physical world. My experiences with God are of the spiritual nature because God is Spirit and I've found His nature unchanging as He said He was. No one to date has ever proven to me that there are contradictions in the Bible and I believe it's because I accept it as it has been given to us by God, literally. There are prophesies revealed and yet to be revealed and parables that relate to truth in the Christian world but, no contradictions.

GC

(March 6, 2017 at 5:30 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(March 6, 2017 at 5:04 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: There is only one proposition on the table. What is your stance with respect to P1, "God exists"? Either P1 is true or P1 is not true. As per the law of the excluded middle you have only two choices.

I agree, either P1 is true or not true. Those are the only possibilities.

My position on the truth values of P1 is, I don't know, with absolute certainty, if it is true or not. This defines me as agnostic.

My position on theist's claim that P1 is true, is I do not believe it, since I don't find that they have met their burden of proof. This defines me as an atheist.

But just because I do not believe gods exist, does not mean I am claiming that they don't exist. Only that I currently have no justification to believe they do.

I'm waiting for the day when option 3 arises... God used to exist but no longer does.

(March 6, 2017 at 11:26 am)SteveII Wrote:

(March 3, 2017 at 9:03 pm)TheAtheologian Wrote: I decided to make a thread on theists explaining why they accept the existence of their God. I know there are few theists on here as compared to atheists/agnostics but I am interested to see what the major ways of the theists on here are. 

Would you ever change your mind God's existence and become an atheist?

1. I, like most people in the world, have no trouble believing that the supernatural exists. 
2. I believe the events of the NT happened basically as described. 
3. The person and teachings of Jesus are compelling and my personal experience affirms the truth of many of his teachings. 
4. While I grew up in a Christian home and don't have a "drastic change" story, I have directly heard hundreds (if not more) testimonies how God has changed people's lives in drastic ways. 
5. There are no successful arguments that show that believing in God is irrational, so I can't see myself changing my mind.

Belief in God is irrational by definition. It requires faith, and faith is the antithesis of reason.

Boru

(March 7, 2017 at 7:53 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(March 6, 2017 at 11:26 am)SteveII Wrote: 1. I, like most people in the world, have no trouble believing that the supernatural exists. 
2. I believe the events of the NT happened basically as described. 
3. The person and teachings of Jesus are compelling and my personal experience affirms the truth of many of his teachings. 
4. While I grew up in a Christian home and don't have a "drastic change" story, I have directly heard hundreds (if not more) testimonies how God has changed people's lives in drastic ways. 
5. There are no successful arguments that show that believing in God is irrational, so I can't see myself changing my mind.

Belief in God is irrational by definition. It requires faith, and faith is the antithesis of reason.

Boru

Do you believe that human reason is reliable? Can you use reason to prove it?