(March 21, 2017 at 4:39 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 21, 2017 at 9:09 am)Little Rik Wrote: So now we only got the consciousness left to bring a state of permanent peace of mind and it certainly can as has already been demonstrated by thousand of NDEs and it is not necessary to die first.

A temporary experience of a state of bliss is not evidence of a permanent state of bliss.  Logic fail 101.

Fail again Yog.




Thousand of NDEs experiencers clearly witness this state of permanent bliss among all those who
were already there (in heaven so to speak) and of course they experience themselves this state until they were brought back into their bodies.
That is the very reason why these people who experience that state of bliss were brought back into their bodies against their wishes.
Why would you live into a body with all the many troubles that concern when you can live free from your body into a permanent state of bliss?

You never thought about that yog, did you?  

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(March 22, 2017 at 12:15 am)ma5t3r0fpupp3t5 Wrote:

(March 21, 2017 at 9:09 am)Little Rik Wrote: All of you fail once again by not using logic.       

But let us talk about facts first.
It is a fact that human are not only made of flesh.
The body-brain is a vehicle that the consciousness need and use to carry the task of progressing.
So if the body serve the master consciousness there can not be any progress in the physical-material arena.

It is also a fact that the physical-material human side is unable to bring a permanent
state of peace of mind considering that enjoyment coming from this side are not permanent and therefore need to be repeated again and again.
So now we only got the consciousness left to bring a state of permanent peace of mind and it certainly can as has already been demonstrated by thousand of NDEs and it is not necessary to die first.
Anybody who is smart enough to understand how the system works can enjoy a permanent state of bliss
and peace of mind right during this present life.

All this follow a logic line build on facts.
Facts are here and there to establish that all this is logic.

If instead you guys keep on believing that the consciousness is a product of the brain and with the physical death is all over then you will never be able to sort out how the whole system works and
will keep on floating in the ocean of dogmas where logic is totally absent.  

I think you are defining logic to be whatever you want and arguing from there, and that definition remains undisclosed. Forum rules actually state to use commonly accepted definitions, but I'm sure the administrators have made an exception for you by virtue of the fact that common definitions might be a bit beyond your scope of understanding.

There is literally nothing to refute here because your definitions for half the words you have written are probably different from common definitions. In other words, and I'm sorry to tell you this, your post devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

Total failing son.  

If those who discovered and invented something would stick with the common definitions then nothing would ever been discovered.
In the past the common belief among the masses was that the earth was flat and it was the center of the universe.
An other funny belief was that past the known world (Europe in this case) about after Portugal there was
an enormous gap and if you ever try to sail over that limit you will fall in this enormous gap and plummet into the void for ever.

This is what you want Ma?
You want people to keep on  floating in this stupid sea of dogmas for ever?  

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(March 20, 2017 at 2:11 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote:

(March 20, 2017 at 6:04 am)Little Rik Wrote: By bringing VALIDITY about known fact then I do fulfill the criteria of logic because it is a known fact that
material-physical things are unable to bring permanent satisfaction.
I do bring known facts that lead to conclusions therefore I follow logic.
All this should have rung a bell in your mind Atheo but if you think it didn't then you got a problem.  

This is a known fact?  If permanence is based on the person possessing it, is it a fact that something material could not satisfy someone until they die? I disagree.  That would be as permanent as you can get.

Total confusion Harry.  

Humans beside possessing a body and a brain they also possess a consciousness which like a driver tell body and brain what to do or not to do.
As far as this consciousness is weak then the body and brain tell the consciousness to shut up like in case of people addicted to something bad.
If instead the consciousness is strong then the body-brain will have to shut up and follow the consciousness directions.

And if these directions are positive that will lead to a state of bliss and peace of mind so you do not have to wait for your physical death to experience this state of bliss.

Got it?  

(March 22, 2017 at 5:41 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 21, 2017 at 4:39 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: A temporary experience of a state of bliss is not evidence of a permanent state of bliss.  Logic fail 101.

Fail again Yog.




Thousand of NDEs experiencers clearly witness this state of permanent bliss among all those who
were already there (in heaven so to speak) and of course they experience themselves this state until they were brought back into their bodies.
That is the very reason why these people who experience that state of bliss were brought back into their bodies against their wishes.
Why would you live into a body with all the many troubles that concern when you can live free from your body into a permanent state of bliss?

You never thought about that yog, did you?  

---

(March 22, 2017 at 12:15 am)ma5t3r0fpupp3t5 Wrote: I think you are defining logic to be whatever you want and arguing from there, and that definition remains undisclosed. Forum rules actually state to use commonly accepted definitions, but I'm sure the administrators have made an exception for you by virtue of the fact that common definitions might be a bit beyond your scope of understanding.

There is literally nothing to refute here because your definitions for half the words you have written are probably different from common definitions. In other words, and I'm sorry to tell you this, your post devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

Total failing son.  

If those who discovered and invented something would stick with the common definitions then nothing would ever been discovered.
In the past the common belief among the masses was that the earth was flat and it was the center of the universe.
An other funny belief was that past the known world (Europe in this case) about after Portugal there was
an enormous gap and if you ever try to sail over that limit you will fall in this enormous gap and plummet into the void for ever.

This is what you want Ma?
You want people to keep on  floating in this stupid sea of dogmas for ever?  

So now the way we define words somehow inhibits our ability to discover things.

I do not doubt that you are a good person, but to call you insane would be an understatement.

(March 21, 2017 at 4:31 pm)TheAtheologian Wrote:

(March 21, 2017 at 9:09 am)Little Rik Wrote: But let us talk about facts first.
It is a fact that human are not only made of flesh.
The body-brain is a vehicle that the consciousness need and use to carry the task of progressing.
So if the body serve the master consciousness there can not be any progress in the physical-material arena.

You mean an immaterial soul? If it is a fact, show me the evidence.

NDEs experience are the evidence.
Why?
Because a dead brain is unable to come up with such clear, sharp and vivid experiences so that means that when the body-brain die the consciousness take over and the consciousness is not material.

You never thought about that Atheo, did you?  

Quote:All this follow a logic line build on facts.

Facts are here and there to establish that all this is logic.

Quote:I wouldn't say that logic is whatever your personal unsupported beliefs are.

Facts are facts.
If however these fact go hand in hand with my beliefs than so good.  


If instead you guys keep on believing that the consciousness is a product of the brain and with the physical death is all over then you will never be able to sort out how the whole system works and
will keep on floating in the ocean of dogmas where logic is totally absent.

Quote:What really appalls me here is not that you believe in an immaterial separate consciousness, but your attitude towards the issue. Part of science and critical thinking includes being open minded towards the other possibilities and corresponding with the empirical evidence derived. From what I see here, you are lacking that.
A great question is, if the evidence corresponded with the view that consciousness was the result of neuro patterns in the brain, would you accept it?

Well, well Atheo.
Suppose that science discover that.
After sometime the science discover that what was discovered in the past was not true and then again and again the latest science discover something else.
Shell I follow the latest discovering all the time?
What is logic make sense to me.
So far science hasn't yet discovered that when the body die also the consciousness die.
The day that they eventually will then I will be open to what science say.
I doubt very very much that the science will ever come up with the evidence that when the body die we are finished for ever.

Quote:then you will never be able to sort out how the whole system works

Quote:Very ironic. Who is the one saying that science will never work here and attributes something we misunderstand to magic like what has been done throughout human prehistory and history?

Magic.
Like pulling rabbits out the magician hat?

No Atheo.
It took millions of years to build up the consciousness that we got.
That is not magic.
That is very hard work.
Life teach us that it is through hard work that we achieve something and this is not magic.
Are rather atheists that believe in magic by thinking that the consciousness is a product of the brain not me.  

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(March 22, 2017 at 6:08 am)ma5t3r0fpupp3t5 Wrote:

(March 22, 2017 at 5:41 am)Little Rik Wrote: Fail again Yog.




Thousand of NDEs experiencers clearly witness this state of permanent bliss among all those who
were already there (in heaven so to speak) and of course they experience themselves this state until they were brought back into their bodies.
That is the very reason why these people who experience that state of bliss were brought back into their bodies against their wishes.
Why would you live into a body with all the many troubles that concern when you can live free from your body into a permanent state of bliss?

You never thought about that yog, did you?  

---

Total failing son.  

If those who discovered and invented something would stick with the common definitions then nothing would ever been discovered.
In the past the common belief among the masses was that the earth was flat and it was the center of the universe.
An other funny belief was that past the known world (Europe in this case) about after Portugal there was
an enormous gap and if you ever try to sail over that limit you will fall in this enormous gap and plummet into the void for ever.

This is what you want Ma?
You want people to keep on  floating in this stupid sea of dogmas for ever?  

So now the way we define words somehow inhibits our ability to discover things.

I do not doubt that you are a good person, but to call you insane would be an understatement.

Is not only about words Ma.
It is a lot more broad than words.
It is the fact that science and here I mean physical science is not able to understand what is over and behind the physical-material aspect of the whole.
Consciousness is not physical-material yet you guys think that physical science can understand it.
That is a total failing Ma.

I do not doubt that you are a good person, but to call you insane would be an understatement.......yeah.  

(March 22, 2017 at 5:41 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 21, 2017 at 4:39 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: A temporary experience of a state of bliss is not evidence of a permanent state of bliss.  Logic fail 101.

Fail again Yog.




Thousand of NDEs experiencers clearly witness this state of permanent bliss among all those who
were already there (in heaven so to speak) and of course they experience themselves this state until they were brought back into their bodies.
That is the very reason why these people who experience that state of bliss were brought back into their bodies against their wishes.
Why would you live into a body with all the many troubles that concern when you can live free from your body into a permanent state of bliss?

You never thought about that yog, did you?  

---

(March 22, 2017 at 12:15 am)ma5t3r0fpupp3t5 Wrote: I think you are defining logic to be whatever you want and arguing from there, and that definition remains undisclosed. Forum rules actually state to use commonly accepted definitions, but I'm sure the administrators have made an exception for you by virtue of the fact that common definitions might be a bit beyond your scope of understanding.

There is literally nothing to refute here because your definitions for half the words you have written are probably different from common definitions. In other words, and I'm sorry to tell you this, your post devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

Total failing son.  

If those who discovered and invented something would stick with the common definitions then nothing would ever been discovered.
In the past the common belief among the masses was that the earth was flat and it was the center of the universe.
An other funny belief was that past the known world (Europe in this case) about after Portugal there was
an enormous gap and if you ever try to sail over that limit you will fall in this enormous gap and plummet into the void for ever.

This is what you want Ma?
You want people to keep on  floating in this stupid sea of dogmas for ever?  

---

(March 20, 2017 at 2:11 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote: This is a known fact?  If permanence is based on the person possessing it, is it a fact that something material could not satisfy someone until they die? I disagree.  That would be as permanent as you can get.

Total confusion Harry.  

Humans beside possessing a body and a brain they also possess a consciousness which like a driver tell body and brain what to do or not to do.
As far as this consciousness is weak then the body and brain tell the consciousness to shut up like in case of people addicted to something bad.
If instead the consciousness is strong then the body-brain will have to shut up and follow the consciousness directions.

And if these directions are positive that will lead to a state of bliss and peace of mind so you do not have to wait for your physical death to experience this state of bliss.

Got it?  

Got it. You're deluded.

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(March 22, 2017 at 6:36 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 21, 2017 at 4:31 pm)TheAtheologian Wrote: You mean an immaterial soul? If it is a fact, show me the evidence.

NDEs experience are the evidence.
Why?
Because a dead brain is unable to come up with such clear, sharp and vivid experiences so that means that when the body-brain die the consciousness take over and the consciousness is not material.

You never thought about that Atheo, did you?  

I know I didn't.  Because there was no dead brain that ever gave any experiences to anyone.

Never thought about that, did you?

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(March 22, 2017 at 5:41 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 21, 2017 at 4:39 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: A temporary experience of a state of bliss is not evidence of a permanent state of bliss.  Logic fail 101.

Fail again Yog.




Thousand of NDEs experiencers clearly witness this state of permanent bliss among all those who
were already there (in heaven so to speak) and of course they experience themselves this state until they were brought back into their bodies.
That is the very reason why these people who experience that state of bliss were brought back into their bodies against their wishes.
Why would you live into a body with all the many troubles that concern when you can live free from your body into a permanent state of bliss?

You never thought about that yog, did you?  

---

What evidence is there to support what they experience as bliss is permanent?

(March 22, 2017 at 5:41 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 21, 2017 at 4:39 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: A temporary experience of a state of bliss is not evidence of a permanent state of bliss.  Logic fail 101.

Fail again Yog.




Thousand of NDEs experiencers clearly witness this state of permanent bliss among all those who
were already there (in heaven so to speak) and of course they experience themselves this state until they were brought back into their bodies.
That is the very reason why these people who experience that state of bliss were brought back into their bodies against their wishes.
Why would you live into a body with all the many troubles that concern when you can live free from your body into a permanent state of bliss?

Typical little rik. All sorts of guessing and no facts in evidence. This is all just baseless speculation.

Little Rik, God has blessed you with reasoning and much knowledge.

You and I should have a discussion about God and the path he has established for us and wants us to follow!

The fact that MK likes Rik does not surprise me at all. I want to watch this discussion.

(March 22, 2017 at 10:05 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 22, 2017 at 5:41 am)Little Rik Wrote: Fail again Yog.




Thousand of NDEs experiencers clearly witness this state of permanent bliss among all those who
were already there (in heaven so to speak) and of course they experience themselves this state until they were brought back into their bodies.
That is the very reason why these people who experience that state of bliss were brought back into their bodies against their wishes.
Why would you live into a body with all the many troubles that concern when you can live free from your body into a permanent state of bliss?

Typical little rik.  All sorts of guessing and no facts in evidence.  This is all just baseless speculation.

His brand of logic is, as Alex points out, much too difficult for most of us to grasp. I for example cannot get my head around how these literally millions of NDE'ers experience permanent bliss themselves UNTIL they are forced to go on living in their bodies. Permanence comes with an expiration date apparently. It does make you wonder why these billions of NDE'ers don't immediately kill themselves to get back to that permanent state that looked so good to them during their transient experience of blissful permanence.

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(March 22, 2017 at 10:10 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Little Rik, God has blessed you with reasoning and much knowledge.

You and I should have a discussion about God and the path he has established for us and wants us to follow!

You should sell tickets.

(March 22, 2017 at 10:10 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Little Rik, God has blessed you with reasoning and much knowledge.

You and I should have a discussion about God and the path he has established for us and wants us to follow!

Jesus Maria im Himmel, that will be spectacular.

(March 22, 2017 at 10:25 am)Alex K Wrote:

(March 22, 2017 at 10:10 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Little Rik, God has blessed you with reasoning and much knowledge.

You and I should have a discussion about God and the path he has established for us and wants us to follow!

Jesus Maria im Himmel, that will be spectacular.

I smell a viral podcast!