(March 24, 2017 at 3:20 pm)val5662 Wrote: So you basically believe "subatomic particles that have always existed" caused the "big bang" and you refuse to believe that a Creator always existed??? Ok....

Yes.  I do believe that.

I find it literally impossible to believe that the god described in the Bible is anything more than a primitive fiction, or that it could create anything at all.  Your beliefs are simply too ludicrous to take seriously.

(March 24, 2017 at 3:18 pm)Jesster Wrote: Any time I see someone asking about evolution or the big bang on an atheist website, I instantly know that they aren't being genuine about their interest. If they really wanted to know, there's plenty of science websites that could fill you in on the details far better.

You sorta missed this part:
In your opinion, not somebody else's writings, what happened at that instant?

val5662 ' Wrote:

(March 24, 2017 at 3:19 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Clearly, you didn't even read the first paragraph of the links I left for you.

If thou won't give me that courtesy, why should I even try to correct your ignorant view of what the big bang is?

You missed the "not somebody else's writings".

That came after.
But what does it matter? Do you expect me to produce the calculations that show how the microwave background radiation is an expected outcome of a big bang and, lo and behold, there it is... Do you also expect me to produce the measurements of that mwbr for you to scrutinize?
Someone has done it for me and I was showing you where to find that.
That someone was kind enough to tell us how to replicate their results...so, if you really want to, feel free to repeat the experiment...feel free to do the calculations.
I won't do those things for you. No one here should.


Do tell me how an intelligent, conscious entity is any more likely than sub atomic particles and space time to exist in the potential infinite past?

(March 24, 2017 at 3:25 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(March 24, 2017 at 3:20 pm)val5662 Wrote: So you basically believe "subatomic particles that have always existed" caused the "big bang" and you refuse to believe that a Creator always existed??? Ok....

Yes.  I do believe that.

I find it literally impossible to believe that the god described in the Bible is anything more than a primitive fiction, or that it could create anything at all.  Your beliefs are simply too ludicrous to take seriously.

Your choice,but just remember this:

Just because you cannot prove something exists does not mean it doesn't  exist.

(March 24, 2017 at 3:04 pm)val5662 Wrote:

(March 24, 2017 at 12:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Yup.  How about yourself?

No.

I agree, you haven't evolved.

---

Who created your God?

(March 24, 2017 at 3:29 pm)val5662 Wrote:

(March 24, 2017 at 3:25 pm)Astreja Wrote: Yes.  I do believe that.

I find it literally impossible to believe that the god described in the Bible is anything more than a primitive fiction, or that it could create anything at all.  Your beliefs are simply too ludicrous to take seriously.

Your choice,but just remember this:

Just because you cannot prove something exists does not mean it doesn't  exist.

But it does mean that it is not reasonable to believe in it as anything more than an interesting possibility, and in the case of the Abrahamic god, a rather silly superstition that people really should have outgrown by now.

(March 24, 2017 at 3:29 pm)val5662 Wrote:

(March 24, 2017 at 3:25 pm)Astreja Wrote: Yes.  I do believe that.

I find it literally impossible to believe that the god described in the Bible is anything more than a primitive fiction, or that it could create anything at all.  Your beliefs are simply too ludicrous to take seriously.

Just because you cannot prove something exists does not mean it doesn't  exist.

But being unable to prove something exists does not give you warrant to say that it in fact does exist. That's where the whole 'evidence' thing comes in.

(March 24, 2017 at 3:10 pm)val5662 Wrote: Ok, lets go with the "Big Bang" theory since a lot of you agree with that.
In your opinion, not somebody else's writings, what exploded at that instant?

Nothing, because it was neither an explosion, nor was it probably an instant. Evidence points to something like an inflationary epoch which can be triggered by random quantum fluctuations of something like the higgs field. But while there are several observations supporting this, the idea is still speculative because there are not sufficiently many data points to reliably nail down a theory yet. Nobody knows what exactly happened, and no serious scientist would tell you that they know for sure. Once you move away from these extremely early times, things become clearer though - the origin of the primordial hydrogen and the formation of stars, and the creation of the heavier elements and all that is pretty uncontroversial. If you're asking for the "moment of creation", it's not clear whether something like that exists.

(March 24, 2017 at 3:25 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(March 24, 2017 at 3:20 pm)val5662 Wrote: So you basically believe "subatomic particles that have always existed" caused the "big bang" and you refuse to believe that a Creator always existed??? Ok....

Subatomic particles have been proved to exist, a creator not so much.

And anyway the idea that "a creator did it" explains nothing.

Where did the creator get the stuff?

You see by saying a creator did it you are now doubling the problem, you not only have to explain where the stuff came from but where the creator, a supposedly complex being, came from and how did it get complex?
how did it evolve?

Simple answer, but the human mind cannot fathom the reality of it.The Creator always existed.When you get bored,maybe just read an online Bible and you can see how He tells us how he created everything.If you think you have a better answer for how the universe and all the complex living creatures came to be,that's great.Also remember "Just because you cannot prove something exists does not mean it doesn't  exist."

(March 24, 2017 at 3:38 pm)val5662 Wrote:

(March 24, 2017 at 3:25 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Subatomic particles have been proved to exist, a creator not so much.

And anyway the idea that "a creator did it" explains nothing.

Where did the creator get the stuff?

You see by saying a creator did it you are now doubling the problem, you not only have to explain where the stuff came from but where the creator, a supposedly complex being, came from and how did it get complex?
how did it evolve?

Simple answer, but the human mind cannot fathom the reality of it.The Creator always existed.When you get bored,maybe just read an online Bible and you can see how He tells us how he created everything.If you think you have a better answer for how the universe and all the complex living creatures came to be,that's great.Also remember "Just because you cannot prove something exists does not mean it doesn't  exist."

Bolded mine.

Prove it.