Little Rik Wrote:I beg your pardon.
No nerves?


The third possibility was that information
about lighting was transmitted
to the pineal by nerves. Fortunately
Arisns Kappers had just identified the
nerve connections of the rat pineal as
coming from the sympathetic nervous
system. We found that if the sympathetic
pathway to the pineal was interrupted
by the removal of the superior
cervical ganglion, the ability of melatonin-forming
activity to be altered by
light was completely lost. Thus it appeared
that light was stimulating the
retina and then information about this
light was being transmitted to the pineal
via sympathetic nerves. Within the
pineal the sympathetic nerves probably
released neurohumors (noradrenaline or
serotonin), which acted on pineal cells
to induce (or block the induction of)
HIONIT; this enzyme in turn regulated
the synthesis of melatonin.


http://web.mit.edu/dick/www/pdf/40.pdf 

Wow, MIT, impressive........ Exactly how does that link prove the existence of the the God of the Bible vs the God of the Jews vs the God of Muslims vs the gods of the Hindus or the "wisdom of Buddha"?


Cant repeat this enough. There is not one religion in the world, NOT ONE, that when it cant debunk science will try to co opt science and try to use it to point to their club. You'd know this if you would debate more than just atheists. But don't feel bad, when people of other religions run into atheists, they are also stuck with tunnel vision.

Do yourself a favor, do several google searches. For example type in "Jewish Science" and "Hindu Science" and "Muslim science" and "Buddhist science" then come back to me and try to claim you have a unique tactic.

(March 29, 2017 at 1:43 pm)Flavius Wrote: Or y'know.. There's no free-will or logic, just the illusion of that.

What's the difference between logic and the illusion of logic?

(March 29, 2017 at 2:21 pm)Alex K Wrote:

(March 29, 2017 at 1:43 pm)Flavius Wrote: Or y'know.. There's no free-will or logic, just the illusion of that.

What's the difference between logic and the illusion of logic?

Logic may be a set of actions that affect one's future, whereas the illusion of logic is similar to that of free-will, any action is already predefined.

(March 29, 2017 at 3:38 pm)Flavius Wrote:

(March 29, 2017 at 2:21 pm)Alex K Wrote: What's the difference between logic and the illusion of logic?

Logic may be a set of actions that affect one's future, whereas the illusion of logic is similar to that of free-will, any action is already predefined.

I don't think you use the word logic to mean the same everyone else does...

(March 29, 2017 at 10:18 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 29, 2017 at 5:03 am)Little Rik Wrote: I beg your pardon.
No nerves?


The third possibility was that information
about lighting was transmitted
to the pineal by nerves. Fortunately
Arisns Kappers had just identified the
nerve connections of the rat pineal as
coming from the sympathetic nervous
system. We found that if the sympathetic
pathway to the pineal was interrupted
by the removal of the superior
cervical ganglion, the ability of melatonin-forming
activity to be altered by
light was completely lost. Thus it appeared
that light was stimulating the
retina and then information about this
light was being transmitted to the pineal
via sympathetic nerves. Within the
pineal the sympathetic nerves probably
released neurohumors (noradrenaline or
serotonin), which acted on pineal cells
to induce (or block the induction of)
HIONIT; this enzyme in turn regulated
the synthesis of melatonin.


http://web.mit.edu/dick/www/pdf/40.pdf

Quote:The sympathetic nervous system (SNS) is one of the two main divisions of the autonomic nervous system, the other being the parasympathetic nervous system.[1][2] The autonomic nervous system functions to regulate the body's unconscious actions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympatheti...ous_system

(bold mine)

The sympathetic nerves act without conscious awareness because they are not "sensing nerves".  So once again you're wrong.  It would help you if you actually understood what you read, but you didn't, so you post nonsense.  The sympathetic nervous system is of no use to you in determining whether the pineal gland is "activated" or not, so it's of no use to you or other traditionalists with your claims about its function.

(March 26, 2017 at 9:29 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: No, you do me a favor and shut up with these stupid claims about the pineal gland which you can't even back up with other people's guesses.  When you have actual evidence that the pineal gland functions in the way you've claimed, then you can talk.  Until then, it's been established that you have no evidence showing that induced experiences are different from NDEs.  You've just got a failed attempt at providing support.  For all your evidence can say, NDEs are induced experiences.

You did your try yog in order to save the sinking boat but once again you failed.  

There is no way that by twisting the words you may be able to come up with something that make any sense.
The pineal gland is connected with all the rest.
The nerves whatever they are called are like the soldiers that do the work as directed by the general (in this case by the pineal gland) so it doesn't really matter whether they have much consciousness in them or not or whatever types or nerves they are called.
None of whatsoever.
So once again you are wrong.

The pineal gland is composed of cells called pinealocytes and cells of the nervous system called glial cells. The pineal gland connects the endocrine system with the nervous system in that it converts nerve signals from the sympathetic system of the peripheral nervous system into hormone signals.


https://www.thoughtco.com/pineal-gland-anatomy-373225

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 29, 2017 at 10:18 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: (bold mine)

The sympathetic nerves act without conscious awareness because they are not "sensing nerves".  So once again you're wrong.  It would help you if you actually understood what you read, but you didn't, so you post nonsense.  The sympathetic nervous system is of no use to you in determining whether the pineal gland is "activated" or not, so it's of no use to you or other traditionalists with your claims about its function.

You did your try yog in order to save the sinking boat but once again you failed.  

The only failure here is an idiot who doesn't know the difference between the autonomic nervous system and the sensory-somatic nervous systems.

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote: There is no way that by twisting the words you may be able to come up with something that make any sense.

Nobody twisted any words. This is just another of your attempts to get out of a contradiction between your religious dogma and the facts of reality. It's sad really, that a grown man resorts to such obvious lunacy to avoid having to face facts.

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote: The pineal gland is connected with all the rest.
The nerves whatever they are called are like the soldiers that do the work as directed by the general (in this case by the pineal gland) so it doesn't really matter whether they have much consciousness in them or not or whatever types or nerves they are called.
None of whatsoever.

"Whatever they are called" matters very much for your claims about the pineal gland. The nerves in the pineal gland convey no sensory information to the brain, so the brain is completely unaware of what the pineal gland is doing. Thus your claims about people "activating" their pineal glands are complete nonsense as they would have no way of knowing whether the pineal gland was stimulated or not. The only sense in which they don't matter is if reality doesn't matter to you. And that describes you quite well, as someone for whom reality is irrelevant. You're living in a dream world that has no connection with reality. Which also means all this garbage you spout about "how the system works" is not connected to reality. It's just a fantasy, thought up by ancient Hindus, refined by a con man named Sarkar, and swallowed whole by a gullible twat, namely you.

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote: So once again you are wrong.

You're a fucking idiot if you believe that. Your religious dogma about the pineal gland has both been shown to be just that, dogma, and that it is biologically wrong. The sympathetic nervous system acts unconsciously and thus can't support any of your claims about the pineal gland. That you cling to the belief that you are right in the face of clear evidence to the contrary simply points to the fact that you are a deluded crank.

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote: The pineal gland is composed of cells called pinealocytes and cells of the nervous system called glial cells. The pineal gland connects the endocrine system with the nervous system in that it converts nerve signals from the sympathetic system of the peripheral nervous system into hormone signals.

https://www.thoughtco.com/pineal-gland-anatomy-373225

(emphasis mine)

You're just underscoring how wrong you are with this quote.

(May 3, 2013 at 10:44 am)Little Rik Wrote: First of all it is important to understand what a dogma is.
A dogma is not only a false truth but is also a false truth that people confine in an enclosure preventing anyone to challenge it.

Now piss off, fool.

You know what DOESN'T surprise me?

Little Rik creating a thread asking us all what logic is.

What doesn't surprise me are eleven pages, so far, on a topic that Little Rik hasn't bothered to address. None of this is about logic -- just more of Rik flogging his favorite hobby horse. I don't know why Jor bothers, since Rik merely asserts the same thing over and over, but I suppose someone needs to address his nonsense. She's either unusually patient or dangerously bored.

(March 30, 2017 at 5:47 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote: You did your try yog in order to save the sinking boat but once again you failed.  

The only failure here is an idiot who doesn't know the difference between the autonomic nervous system and the sensory-somatic nervous systems.

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote: There is no way that by twisting the words you may be able to come up with something that make any sense.

Nobody twisted any words.  This is just another of your attempts to get out of a contradiction between your religious dogma and the facts of reality.  It's sad really, that a grown man resorts to such obvious lunacy to avoid having to face facts.

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote: The pineal gland is connected with all the rest.
The nerves whatever they are called are like the soldiers that do the work as directed by the general (in this case by the pineal gland) so it doesn't really matter whether they have much consciousness in them or not or whatever types or nerves they are called.
None of whatsoever.

"Whatever they are called" matters very much for your claims about the pineal gland.  The nerves in the pineal gland convey no sensory information to the brain, so the brain is completely unaware of what the pineal gland is doing.  Thus your claims about people "activating" their pineal glands are complete nonsense as they would have no way of knowing whether the pineal gland was stimulated or not.  The only sense in which they don't matter is if reality doesn't matter to you.  And that describes you quite well, as someone for whom reality is irrelevant.  You're living in a dream world that has no connection with reality.  Which also means all this garbage you spout about "how the system works" is not connected to reality.  It's just a fantasy, thought up by ancient Hindus, refined by a con man named Sarkar, and swallowed whole by a gullible twat, namely you.

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote: So once again you are wrong.

You're a fucking idiot if you believe that.  Your religious dogma about the pineal gland has both been shown to be just that, dogma, and that it is biologically wrong.  The sympathetic nervous system acts unconsciously and thus can't support any of your claims about the pineal gland.  That you cling to the belief that you are right in the face of clear evidence to the contrary simply points to the fact that you are a deluded crank.

(March 29, 2017 at 11:49 pm)Little Rik Wrote: The pineal gland is composed of cells called pinealocytes and cells of the nervous system called glial cells. The pineal gland connects the endocrine system with the nervous system in that it converts nerve signals from the sympathetic system of the peripheral nervous system into hormone signals.

https://www.thoughtco.com/pineal-gland-anatomy-373225

(emphasis mine)

You're just underscoring how wrong you are with this quote.

(May 3, 2013 at 10:44 am)Little Rik Wrote: First of all it is important to understand what a dogma is.
A dogma is not only a false truth but is also a false truth that people confine in an enclosure preventing anyone to challenge it.

Now piss off, fool.

I knew well from the very beginning that you were a nut case   but now you go even further in order to show your atheists mates that you are on top.  
You surely are on top but on top of the mental sewer.  

By giving so much importance to the nerves that connect the pineal gland with all the rest you show that
you live in a fantasy world.
The pineal gland is something physical but the consciousness that lie inside the gland is something abstract.

We can not see, smell or touch the consciousness but it exist.
I did show you that the consciousness may get affected when the pineal gland get calcified.

As soon as I did you come down with all the bullshit about the nerves.
This clearly show that you didn't get it.

Why?
Because you are stuck in the corral of dogmas  by thinking only about the physical-material aspect.

Humans beings are not only made of flesh and your nerves.
Consciousness is much much more important than the flesh and consciousness doesn't necessary get affected only by the body-brain.
It also get affected by our attitude.
That is why a positive attitude keep the consciousness alive and well while a negative one does the opposite.
Therefore the calcification of the pineal gland get affected by both the physical aspect and the mental one.
Yoga is all about to make sure that the consciousness is activated all the time and live in an healthy place called pineal gland.
It is all so so simple yog but you being a total fool throw rubbish in the clear water turning everything muddy in your mind of course not in mine.  

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 30, 2017 at 5:47 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: The only failure here is an idiot who doesn't know the difference between the autonomic nervous system and the sensory-somatic nervous systems.


Nobody twisted any words.  This is just another of your attempts to get out of a contradiction between your religious dogma and the facts of reality.  It's sad really, that a grown man resorts to such obvious lunacy to avoid having to face facts.


"Whatever they are called" matters very much for your claims about the pineal gland.  The nerves in the pineal gland convey no sensory information to the brain, so the brain is completely unaware of what the pineal gland is doing.  Thus your claims about people "activating" their pineal glands are complete nonsense as they would have no way of knowing whether the pineal gland was stimulated or not.  The only sense in which they don't matter is if reality doesn't matter to you.  And that describes you quite well, as someone for whom reality is irrelevant.  You're living in a dream world that has no connection with reality.  Which also means all this garbage you spout about "how the system works" is not connected to reality.  It's just a fantasy, thought up by ancient Hindus, refined by a con man named Sarkar, and swallowed whole by a gullible twat, namely you.


You're a fucking idiot if you believe that.  Your religious dogma about the pineal gland has both been shown to be just that, dogma, and that it is biologically wrong.  The sympathetic nervous system acts unconsciously and thus can't support any of your claims about the pineal gland.  That you cling to the belief that you are right in the face of clear evidence to the contrary simply points to the fact that you are a deluded crank.

(emphasis mine)

You're just underscoring how wrong you are with this quote.


Now piss off, fool.

I knew well from the very beginning that you were a nut case   but now you go even further in order to show your atheists mates that you are on top.  
You surely are on top but on top of the mental sewer.  


By giving so much importance to the nerves that connect the pineal gland with all the rest you show that
you live in a fantasy world.
The pineal gland is something physical but the consciousness that lie inside the gland is something abstract.

This is nothing but religious dogma. As noted throughout this thread, you have no evidence that the pineal gland has anything to do with consciousness. That's just pseudoscientific bullshit. There aren't enough nerves innervating the pineal gland to support the input and output of information necessary to support control of the body and other nervous functions. The nerves in the pineal gland flow one direction: from the brain to the gland. That's not sufficient to support all the things that the brain does for consciousness. That's literally zero nerves for that function. So once again you've been shown biologically wrong with your dogma about the pineal gland. There aren't enough nerves going to the pineal gland and the ones that do are the wrong kind. Your idea is simply a miserable failure when it comes to the supposed location of consciousness.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: We can not see, smell or touch the consciousness but it exist.
I did show you that the consciousness may get affected when the pineal gland get calcified.

You showed nothing of the sort. Alzheimer's disease affects the whole brain. Showing that one part of the brain is affected by Alzheimer's gets you nothing. It's a correlation, nothing more.

Quote:Corpora arenacea (or brain sand or acervuli[1][2] or corpus arenaceum[3]) are calcified structures in the pineal gland and other areas of the brain such as the choroid plexus. Older organisms have numerous corpora arenacea, whose function, if any, is unknown. Concentrations of "brain sand" increase with age, so the pineal gland becomes increasingly visible on X-rays over time, usually by the third or fourth decade. They are sometimes used as anatomical landmarks in radiological examinations.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora_arenacea

(bold mine)

Increasing calcification is a product of age. Showing that some patients affected with calcification have a disease shows that the disease affects the pineal gland. That's all. It doesn't show that the pineal gland calcification is the cause of the behavioral deterioration.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: As soon as I did you come down with all the bullshit about the nerves.
This clearly show that you didn't get it.

I came down with all these facts about the nerves because it clearly demonstrated that you were talking bullshit. And you still are.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: Humans beings are not only made of flesh and your nerves.

Unsupported assertion.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: Consciousness is much much more important than the flesh and consciousness doesn't necessary get affected only by the body-brain.

Unsupported assertion.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: It also get affected by our attitude.
That is why a positive attitude keep the consciousness alive and well while a negative one does the opposite.

Unsupported assertion.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: Therefore the calcification of the pineal gland get affected by both the physical aspect and the mental one.

As usual, you claim more than you know. Unsupported assertion.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: Yoga is all about to make sure that the consciousness is activated all the time and live in an healthy place called pineal gland.

More religious dogma that is without a scrap of evidence. Bare assertions of "how things are" don't count for shit. Anybody can make a bunch of assertions.

(March 30, 2017 at 10:52 am)Little Rik Wrote: It is all so so simple yog but you being a total fool throw rubbish in the clear water turning everything muddy in your mind of course not in mine.  

Yes, it's all so simple. Your claims about the role of the pineal gland in induced experiences and NDEs are rubbish. Your other claims about the pineal gland's role in consciousness are nothing but religious dogma. You just spout bullshit, bare assertions, and trash talk.