I don't really have much else to add, other than that the comparisons between skin colour and transitioning are just ridiculous. If you look at some transwomen they do still have a bit of a masculine body structure. Now that's not any fault of their own, but it sure as hell isn't prejudiced to point out in a debate like this either.

Can having broader shoulders, slightly bigger hands and other small things like that give someone an advantage? I don't know but let's not ignore it. It is an interesting topic and all sides have made some good points so far.

Privilege this, privilege that.

No wonder the mainstream left (in particular, the far-left factions) aren't taken seriously these days. They're happy to call everyone else privileged (mainly straight white Christian males, of course, as always) while they type on expensive computers and are likely university educated. Funny that.

(April 5, 2017 at 2:00 pm)wallym Wrote:

(April 5, 2017 at 1:08 pm)Shell B Wrote: I'm not even going to deny that it is more common for blacks to be at a disadvantage to whites, but to be presumptuous and assume every white person has this magical color privilege is bullshit. It fails to consider the nuances of the thousands of micro societies within American society. There are, without a doubt, places in this country where being white doesn't mean shit. Far left and far right people baffle me. It's extremism that should have no place in civilized society.

This is a very similar argument we're arguing against in regards to transwomen athletes. 

Mathilda and others are saying, because there are a few "Obama Daughter" cisgender athletes, who have many of the same physical advantages a transgender athlete has, that it's bullshit to say transwomen have an inherent advantage just by being transgender.

Ah, but no one has been able to show that the average transwoman doesn't have an advantage over the average woman. Until there is enough science to support that, there will be conversations like this, and they will be legitimate.

For the record, I want transitioning to be so perfect that transwomen are not only able to compete with women, but are also indistinguishable. I'm just not sure we're there, and that doesn't make me a bad person.

The problem here is that there are legitimate differences between men and women. I'm 24 years old, I'm 6'3" and weigh probably 215 lbs or so. I'm a pretty fit guy and I could physically manhandle most men I interact with on a daily basis, even those who may be larger in stature than I am. I have, for years, trained in Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and kickboxing. Am I equal to most men in terms of physical ability? Probably not. There are other grown men that I've seriously hurt in the past in street fights and quite honestly those fights were always completely unfair. I'm not proud of that but I used to have a really bad temper and I was never afraid to throw the first punch.

Let alone if I ever put my hands on a woman? It would be terrible. Physical differences do exist between people. Physical differences do exist between the genders. This isn't discrimination. This isn't prejudice. This is fact. Should I be allowed to fight in a female Mixed Martial Arts league because I claim that I "identify" as a female? I'm not so sure about that.

We do not live in a perfect world and as much as we try to work toward perfection we will never achieve it. There will always be a minority. There will always be a marginalized group and there will always be people who feel like life isn't fair. We should accommodate people where and when we can but we can't save everyone from "being offended."

That being said I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. I certainly support trans rights and have no problem with trans people in any way shape or form. But we have to look at what makes sense and not just what is going to spare people's feelings.

(April 5, 2017 at 3:06 pm)AceBoogie Wrote: That being said I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. I certainly support trans rights and have no problem with trans people in any way shape or form. But we have to look at what makes sense and not just what is going to spare people's feelings.

Exactly this.

I think that steroids should be legalized so everyone can be on the same level.

I also like how it makes a woman's clit larger.

I accept privilege exists. Here in the West where straight white male is the default position any one who belongs to that demographic is automatically privileged regardless of any
thing else. But it becomes complicated because there are multiple axes of privilege that one may be on which may not be consistent with each other. For example a white woman
will be privileged because she is white but non privileged because she is a woman. And so privilege is multifaceted. Now it can be dismissed as a means of denying free speech to
those who are already privileged [ straight men ] by those less privileged [ white feminists ] but it is an actual phenomenon so should therefore be acknowledged and understood

(April 5, 2017 at 11:43 pm)surreptitious57 Wrote: I accept privilege exists. Here in the West where straight white male is the default position any one who belongs to that demographic is automatically privileged regardless of any
thing else.

That's total bullshit.

But hey, I always appreciate a good laugh.

Crack on.

(April 5, 2017 at 11:43 pm)surreptitious57 Wrote: I accept privilege exists. Here in the West where straight white male is the default position any one who belongs to that demographic is automatically privileged regardless of any
thing else.

This is complete bullshit. Class has more to do with "privilege" than race ever will.

Do you have clean water to drink? Then you're privileged.

Do you know where your next meal is coming from? Then you're privileged.

Are you on a computer right now? You're privileged.

Do you spend your days wondering the streets and your nights under bridges or in homeless shelters? No? Then you're privileged.

We all face adversity in life... granted some face more than others. But this whole privilege thing is such a fucking victim's attitude it is disgusting. I have succeeded in my life DESPITE the shit I've gone through... not because I'm white. You work hard and learn how to play the game and you get ahead in life. Period. If you're not willing to work hard or play the game, you deserve to be a fucking loser. Period.

You know who I feel sorry for? People who legitimately have real health problems that prevent them from living a happy, healthy life. Kids who get cancer before they're old enough to talk. People who legitimately don't have access to clean water, food or shelter. Some people truly are dealt a shitty hand in life and all these buzzfeed reading liberal assholes that push this "privilege" nonsense down our throats like a gluten free, vegan friendly spoon of dogshit are not doing anything to help anyone.

Life is tough. Buck the fuck up and learn how to play the system to your advantage. Do what you need to do to get by. But don't sit around and bitch about privilege while you're sitting in starbucks on your macbook laptop drinking a nonfat decaf caramel machiatto.

I like winners. Not losers. That's why I don't hang around people who are losers. I don't hang around people who are always broke or constantly bitch about their problems. Life is going to try and beat you down the entire time you're here on this earth. but life will only win if you let it.

So tell me, am I "privileged" because I'm a straight white male or am I privileged because I have worked hard to get where I am?

Here's another one.
http://www.courant.com/sports/high-schoo...story.html

Scroll down to the photos and check the margin she had over the other competitors.

(April 5, 2017 at 12:52 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(April 5, 2017 at 12:27 pm)Pitsligo Wrote: You just know that if the web had been around in the 60s then there'd be threads like this about "coloreds" using the same water fountain as white people. Same shit, different prejudice.

Fucking prejudice. Fuck's sake. You notice that a trans woman may be more like a man that a biological woman and all of a sudden you're prejudiced?

Have you ever noticed that black people have darker skin? You're prejudiced.

It's the obsession with the detail. Why is this even an issue? Because some want to bash trans people at every opportunity. Don't tell me everyone cares so much about this issue in sport it's worth this huge thread. It's just another avenue to dehumanise, like water fountains used to be.

They've lost the battle against black people. They've lost the argument against gay people. Now those who need to have prejudice are going after trans people. I wonder who is next?