(April 5, 2017 at 10:43 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(April 5, 2017 at 10:40 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I think you mean "Ken Ham, Raider Of The Lost Tax Payers".

That's the sequel.

The crazy thing is I can see some potential in a Ken Ham biopic -- just not in the way that Ham and the lunatic fringe would like.

I'm thinking of a Charlie Kaufman script, directed/produced by the Coen brothers, and starring William Macy in the title role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aof5LCT5JD0

A Lee Strobel biopic? Meh. Just a remake of God Is Not Dead, which already gave us all the bad arguments plus an alleged atheist who was really just a maladjusted theist.

Anecdotally, adults who find religion later in life seem like it's often a positive for them.  And oftentimes, the stories involving their finding religion are fairly interesting.


Really, any time an independent mind makes a major change in their point of view is pretty intriguing, because it's so rare.

I can't believe you lot are objecting to this film. It might be – literally – a 'come to Jesus moment' for all of you. Perhaps a film like this is just what you need to get yourselves off the path to destruction and get right with the Lord.

Oh, fuck. We're already past April Fools Day, aren't we? Never mind, then. Fuck Lee Strobel and everyone who looks like him.

Boru

(April 6, 2017 at 10:56 am)wallym Wrote: Anecdotally, adults who find religion later in life seem like it's often a positive for them.  And oftentimes, the stories involving their finding religion are fairly interesting.


Really, any time an independent mind makes a major change in their point of view is pretty intriguing, because it's so rare.

I disagree. I don't equate his claim to be independent and setting out to prove god does not exist as "intriguing". It is certainly possible for someone who was not deeply indoctrinated at birth to go into religion as an adult, sure, but that still does not prove a thing.

I think Lee latched onto a very slick argument, and a very false argument. Humans can fall for all sorts of elaborate falsehoods. If he wants to claim he really was an atheist, so what. Humans leave one religion for another worldwide all the time. Even with Ponzi schemes the perp can even start the scam with all the good intent in the world of wanting to help people but end up realizing they have to continually bring more investors in to pay off just the interest of the other investors. But even the victims of Ponzi schemes are not always checkbook ignorant. Even the most educated and even rich who can balance a checkbook can fall for it.

If he had adopted Islam as an adult, or adapted Buddhism as an adult, he would still have the same problem, so what. He fell for an elaborate argument, thats all. I think most of it was him simply looking for an excuse to find something to fit in with and not about disproving. I think he fooled himself thats all.

(April 6, 2017 at 11:11 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 6, 2017 at 10:56 am)wallym Wrote: Anecdotally, adults who find religion later in life seem like it's often a positive for them.  And oftentimes, the stories involving their finding religion are fairly interesting.


Really, any time an independent mind makes a major change in their point of view is pretty intriguing, because it's so rare.

I disagree. I don't equate his claim to be independent and setting out to prove god does not exist as "intriguing". It is certainly possible for someone who was not deeply indoctrinated at birth to go into religion as an adult, sure, but that still does not prove a thing.

I think Lee latched onto a very slick argument, and a very false argument. Humans can fall for all sorts of elaborate falsehoods. If he wants to claim he really was an atheist, so what. Humans leave one religion for another worldwide all the time. Even with Ponzi schemes the perp can even start the scam with all the good intent in the world of wanting to help people but end up realizing they have to continually bring more investors in to pay off just the interest of the other investors. But even the victims of Ponzi schemes are not always checkbook ignorant. Even the most educated and even rich who can balance a checkbook can fall for it.

If he had adopted Islam as an adult, or adapted Buddhism as an adult, he would still have the same problem, so what. He fell for an elaborate argument, thats all. I think most of it was him simply looking for an excuse to find something to fit in with and not about disproving. I think he fooled himself thats all.

I find the bolded interesting, even as you stated it.

I regret for example, not staying in contact with my cousin. He rejected religion when I met him, he was in his mid teens at the time. He would have called himself an atheist at the time, unfortunately I think he followed me merely because he was trying to find something to belong to.

I saw my own behaviors in him. I grew up with parents who expected me to act like an adult far too early in my life, and they were very authoritarian and while looking back at it now, I don't blame them because that is what their parents sold them. But that conflict, because I was sensitive didn't help, and it also didn't help that I had nothing but bullies on my block, and stupidly I tried to fit in.

He also got thrust into taking on way too much responsibility. His older brother is autistic and both his parents constantly worked, and like me, he had no social skills because most of his time was spent at home. And I cant begin to count the times his dad loudly screamed at him to do something. I knew that feeling because my mom did that to me too. I love my mom, but I don't think parents realize that even when you are right as a parent, sensitive kids can end up internalizing that and have social problems as a result. I had no social skills because my only friends were my TV or bullies. So when we met and clicked and saw each other's empathy he followed me. 

But like me, he had a hard time with girls getting dates, got rejected alot. I fell out of contact with him over the years only to find out he went back to religion, and I think the only reason he did, was because he found a woman who loved him. 

But even without all that, even if you don't have those social problems you can get stumped by an argument. There was a time in my past, because I didn't have the experience I do now, I feared getting stumped. I think Lee simply hit a stump, and repeatedly hit that same stump, and didn't bother after a while to keep challenging the stump he ran into. The way the story is painted of him, I think he simply wanted to give up because he falsely got stumped by a slick argument and because he loved his wife falsely equated her position as being true.

I get a lip twitch when I here anyone claim "I was, but now I am".

That really does go in all directions.

"I was a Muslim, now I am a Christian".

"I was a Christian now I am a Muslim"

"I was a Christian now I am a Buddhist"

"I was a Buddhist now I am a Christian" 

"I was an atheist now I am a Christian"

"I was an atheist now I am a Buddhist"


If you look long enough at countless theists pages on the web of a variety you will see those arguments in all directions.

I think humans simply fall for it because they are merely looking for something to fit into and  feel good about.

---

(April 5, 2017 at 6:19 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Um...yeah. I will be sitting this one out.
I will continue voting, and continue to take a stand when actual rights are being infringed upon/injustice is afoot, though.

Good luck, Brian.

I am saying it is better the more skeptics get involved. I am not saying every skeptic will be. It still is an individual choice. Do your own thing.

Our western concepts of pluralism came about because even theists grew to question social norms. It is why we no longer have slavery and why women can vote, and even today why LGBT have far more rights now than they did a decade ago. 

Using media matters. Even prior to the age of the internet progress has always been made by using media. King put himself in the newspapers and on TV. Susan B also put herself in the media spotlight. I can say if it were not for an atheist nurse who got her opinion printed nation wide in papers right after 9/11, If I had not read that, I would have stayed a closet atheist longer or simply fell back into religion because back then I was not as well armed as I am today.

Times change and since media has I think it would be foolish for atheists not to use it. Theists do and they use it to sell all sorts of nonsense and worse, hate.