(April 23, 2017 at 1:38 pm)Crunchy Wrote:

(April 23, 2017 at 1:05 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: And the reality is we are more in need of such true Shaman figure in this age than any time in the past.

So 1400 years of dictatorship and theocracy is not enough for you. You want it in perpetuity?

Ali and Hassan ruled barely any time, and they were opposed. 
If children of Israel obeyed the Prophets of their time,  the world would be a better place.
If the nation of Mohammad obeyed his successors, it would be a better place.
I am certain of this. But if they cling to unworthy leadership and obey other than them, things will spiral out of control.
We Muslims failed the world. We Shiites failed our Guides and Masters. These holy Kings and pure souls were meant for all humanity, and if we had any courage, we would of long defeated Iblis and his forces.
When we fear people like the fear of God, when we love the false world with love meant for God and his chosen ones, we blame ourselves, not the book that was meant to usher hope to humanity, bring balance to the world, and establish the just world it was always meant to be.

(April 23, 2017 at 2:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 23, 2017 at 1:38 pm)Crunchy Wrote: So 1400 years of dictatorship and theocracy is not enough for you. You want it in perpetuity?

Ali and Hassan ruled barely any time, and they were opposed. 
If children of Israel obeyed the Prophets of their time,  the world would be a better place.
If the nation of Mohammad obeyed his successors, it would be a better place.
I am certain of this. But if they cling to unworthy leadership and obey other than them, things will spiral out of control.
We Muslims failed the world. We Shiites failed our Guides and Masters. These holy Kings and pure souls were meant for all humanity, and if we had any courage, we would of long defeated Iblis and his forces.
When we fear people like the fear of God, when we love the false world with love meant for God and his chosen ones, we blame ourselves, not the book that was meant to usher hope to humanity, bring balance to the world, and establish the just world it was always meant to be.

Sour grapes. There are more reasons than failure to follow the "true" guides that your bloody religion has failed to bring peace to this world. You follow a god created in the image of blood thirsty tyrants.

(April 23, 2017 at 2:09 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(April 23, 2017 at 2:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Ali and Hassan ruled barely any time, and they were opposed. 
If children of Israel obeyed the Prophets of their time,  the world would be a better place.
If the nation of Mohammad obeyed his successors, it would be a better place.
I am certain of this. But if they cling to unworthy leadership and obey other than them, things will spiral out of control.
We Muslims failed the world. We Shiites failed our Guides and Masters. These holy Kings and pure souls were meant for all humanity, and if we had any courage, we would of long defeated Iblis and his forces.
When we fear people like the fear of God, when we love the false world with love meant for God and his chosen ones, we blame ourselves, not the book that was meant to usher hope to humanity, bring balance to the world, and establish the just world it was always meant to be.

Sour grapes. There are more reasons than failure to follow the "true" guides that your bloody religion has failed to bring peace to this world. You follow a god created in the image of blood thirsty tyrants.

Our leaders are with the oppressed and meek in the earth, and were chosen from them. They are opposite of blood thirsty tyrants, and it's oppressive people like Pharaohs and their followers who wish to pick their leaders as opposed to having God pick the best among them and manifest him with clear proofs.

We know people of plenty and ease and their ways of following desires don't want to recognize their duty to knowledge, justice or the oppressed.   

The light of God will manifest to the world be it no matter how much you maybe averse or hate it.

"I am God the King" will be manifested through the Leader and Guide of our time and Jesus will help him and be one of his clear proofs.

(April 23, 2017 at 2:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 23, 2017 at 2:09 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Sour grapes. There are more reasons than failure to follow the "true" guides that your bloody religion has failed to bring peace to this world. You follow a god created in the image of blood thirsty tyrants.

Our leaders are with the oppressed and meek in the earth, and were chosen from them. They are opposite of blood thirsty tyrants, and it's oppressive people like Pharaohs and their followers who wish to pick their leaders as opposed to having God pick the best among them and manifest him with clear proofs.

We know people of plenty and ease and their ways of following desires don't want to recognize their duty to knowledge, justice or the oppressed.   

The light of God will manifest to the world be it no matter how much you maybe averse or hate it.

"I am God the King" will be manifested through the Leader and Guide of our time and Jesus will help him and be one of his clear proofs.

Dream on!

(April 23, 2017 at 2:17 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(April 23, 2017 at 2:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Our leaders are with the oppressed and meek in the earth, and were chosen from them. They are opposite of blood thirsty tyrants, and it's oppressive people like Pharaohs and their followers who wish to pick their leaders as opposed to having God pick the best among them and manifest him with clear proofs.

We know people of plenty and ease and their ways of following desires don't want to recognize their duty to knowledge, justice or the oppressed.   

The light of God will manifest to the world be it no matter how much you maybe averse or hate it.

"I am God the King" will be manifested through the Leader and Guide of our time and Jesus will help him and be one of his clear proofs.

Dream on!

Living the dream.

(April 23, 2017 at 1:38 pm)Crunchy Wrote: Ok great, can you answer my question above in post #36?

yes.

Quote:The Hadith paint the picture of how a murderer, rapist and pedophile came to conquer Arabia so it's no wonder you chose to ignore them, but the Quran is no better. It's just written in a more flowery and confusing way.

I've read the Quran and was not impressed. It's an awful lot of plagiarism from the bible and by far the main focus is pure hatred of the unbeliever. 
You can pretend all you want that there are some "nice" passages and some "bad" passages, therefore this somehow cancels out. But the truth is quite different.

A simple counting shows that "the unbeliever" is the most common feature of the Quran. Muhammad, like all cult leaders, was obsessed with being followed and obeyed. Counting up the nice things that Muhammad says about unbelievers vs the absolutely horrid and vile things he says and counsels to do to them will easily put to rest the lie of "some good and some bad" and it is ridiculously easy to see the huge overburden of vile xenophobia found throughout the Quran.

So, I'd like to here from a moderate Muslim like yourself. How can you give your approval and support to so may evil ideas? Do you think that just redacting them from your mind somehow makes the problems disappear from the world outside your mind?

Many choose not to ignore it; though.
In fact, it's even used in the constitution of many countries across the Middle East as a source of law creation.

"plagiarism" is a big accusation. But if you see it like that; it's up to you.
Sharing the same concepts is not plagiarism; it might be an indication that the Quran and the Bible do share the same God.

I don't claim anything, but I quote the Quran itself:

Sura 5, Page 123, The Quran:
( 87 )   O you who have believed, do not prohibit the good things which Allah has made lawful to you and do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors.

Open up page 123, on verse 87, to see that being a transgressor is prohibited by Islam.. It's not rocket science.
I do find a nation, that believed in this verse, 1400 years ago, quite impressive, don't you think?

You also said that Mohammed was obsessed with others following him.
Which I find a quite ignorant statement; looking at this verse:

Sura 109, Page 603, The Quran:
( 1 )   Say, "O disbelievers,

( 2 )   I do not worship what you worship.

( 3 )   Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.

( 4 )   Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.

( 5 )   Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
( 6 )   For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

So I can say straightforwardly that your post is not based on research, real study of the Quran, real supporting with evidence against Mohammed's case from the Quran, which makes your post quite a propaganda of an anti theistic mind.

Ask yourself what makes you lie about the whole thing, instead of bringing evidence upforth like a decent unbiased detective of ancient texts?
Or is it a set of Blah blah blah that Antitheists believe in?

Not evil. This book is the mercy of God for us humans. A mercy we hid by nuclear bombs and WMDs.

---

(April 23, 2017 at 2:17 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 23, 2017 at 2:17 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Dream on!

Living the dream.

Is this the new Coca Cola commercial?

Quote:AtlasS33 Wrote: 
I don't claim anything, but I quote the Quran itself:

Well this is exactly what I was saying isn't it. The exact point I made is the part you have completely ignored in you reply!
I asked you specifically:

Quote:Do you think that just redacting them from your mind somehow makes the problems disappear from the world outside your mind? 

You replied with some "good" quotes (as predicted) while completely ignoring all the vile and horrible parts in the Quran that says that the Kafir may be deceived, hated, enslaved, mocked, tortured and killed. Your "good" verses have been abrogated!

Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to "panting dogs" with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness. 
Verse 7:179 says they are like "cattle" only worse.  
Verse 9:28 says the unbelievers are unclean.  
Verse 6:111 says they are ignorant.  
Verse 23:55 says they are helpers of the devil.
Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs.  This is echoed by verses 7:166 and 2:65.  
And this is just the tip of the iceberg as we haven't even begun discussing the horrible treatment of women. 

So I guess I have my answer. You lie to yourself. You redact the vile parts from your mind allowing you to pretend that the vile parts have no influence on the world outside of your mind.

Words matter and the vile words found in the Quran DO have an influence in the real world. It can also be shown that the vile words outnumber the good ones by an order of magnitude and the the Medina parts (violent conquest) abrogate the more peaceful Meccan parts. 

There are 7 countries in the world where the state can execute you for being atheist. Every single one is officially Islamic. That is not a mere coincidence but is the result of the hate speech found in the Quran.  Hate speech that you redact from your mind and pretend does not exist at all or that you excuse away.

(April 24, 2017 at 11:17 am)Crunchy Wrote:

Quote:AtlasS33 Wrote: 
I don't claim anything, but I quote the Quran itself:

Well this is exactly what I was saying isn't it. The exact point I made is the part you have completely ignored in you reply!

The Quran is a set of verses.
I quoted the verses to reply to your  reply. 

Quote:You replied with some "good" quotes (as predicted)

This is the issue.
We always get humans living in their day dreams, some think they can predict the future, others think they can speak to the dead, others think they spoke to God, but in the end of the day, it's you and your claim and the bed.

So whatever helps you sleep at night.

Quote:while completely ignoring all the vile and horrible parts in the Quran that says that the Kafir may be deceived

Quote the Quran on that instead of predicting.
That's a big lie.

Quote:hated

Yes; that's true.
Non-belief cause disasters.

Quote:enslaved

Quote the Quran on that instead of predicting.
That's a big lie.

Quote:mocked

Quote the Quran on that instead of predicting.
That's a big lie.

Quote:tortured

Yes; torturing torturers who corrupt in earth is a sentence.
Does the American police practice "candy spreading" when it puts convicts in jail?

Quote:killed

Sadly, that's written in the definition of war and combat.
Does the American army practice "tickling to submission" in wars?

Quote: Your "good" verses have been abrogated!

I told you: whatever helps you with your night sleep.

Quote:Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to "panting dogs" with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness. 
Verse 7:179 says they are like "cattle" only worse.  
Verse 9:28 says the unbelievers are unclean.  
Verse 6:111 says they are ignorant.  
Verse 23:55 says they are helpers of the devil.
Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs.  This is echoed by verses 7:166 and 2:65.  
And this is just the tip of the iceberg as we haven't even begun discussing the horrible treatment of women. 

Stop copy-pasting from right wing propaganda sites:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/...-hate.aspx

The link above contains the exact text you copied and pasted.
Thus; you're a:

1-another spam
2-Did no real research
3-Copy-Paste spams are a waste of energy and time


Please; purchase some life and get it on the way! life; I mean.

Quote:AtlasS33 Wrote:
The Quran is a set of verses.
I quoted the verses to reply to your  reply.

 
And you missed the point that you would only quote the good parts while ignoring the bad. This is the accusation I made against you and you fell right into that behavior thus proving me correct.
  

Quote:Stop copy-pasting from right wing propaganda sites:

However you chose to characterise any website, it does not change the fact that those Quaranic verses exist as described. 
As an example: https://quran.com/7/176
Or this: https://quran.com/8/55
Does it bother you that people critical of the Quran accurately quote the Quran? Probably not if you simply redact those parts from your mind.

And you continue to avoid the central complaint.
 

Quote:Do you think that just redacting them from your mind somehow makes the problems disappear from the world outside your mind?

 
Ignoring the vile parts of the Quran is what I accuse you of doing and your reply is to… ignore the vile parts of the Quran and pretend they don't exist. 
There is plenty of hate speech in the Quran. Deal with it.

Instead, you continue to give the answer to the question above. You lie to yourself. You redact the vile parts from your mind allowing you to pretend that the vile parts have no influence on the world outside of your mind. 

But.. whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

(April 24, 2017 at 1:59 pm)Crunchy Wrote:

Quote:AtlasS33 Wrote:
The Quran is a set of verses.
I quoted the verses to reply to your  reply.

 
And you missed the point that you would only quote the good parts while ignoring the bad. This is the accusation I made against you and you fell right into that behavior thus proving me correct.
  

Quote:Stop copy-pasting from right wing propaganda sites:

However you chose to characterise any website, it does not change the fact that those Quaranic verses exist as described. 
As an example: https://quran.com/7/176
Or this: https://quran.com/8/55
Does it bother you that people critical of the Quran accurately quote the Quran? Probably not if you simply redact those parts from your mind.

And you continue to avoid the central complaint.
 

Quote:Do you think that just redacting them from your mind somehow makes the problems disappear from the world outside your mind?

 
Ignoring the vile parts of the Quran is what I accuse you of doing and your reply is to… ignore the vile parts of the Quran and pretend they don't exist. 
There is plenty of hate speech in the Quran. Deal with it.

Instead, you continue to give the answer to the question above. You lie to yourself. You redact the vile parts from your mind allowing you to pretend that the vile parts have no influence on the world outside of your mind. 

But.. whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

Spam!
Read my comment; then we talk.
Spam!